Nutter? Hallucination?

[Hetzer]

An NDE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSjzY0s0SM&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Carl_steveo]

There's most likely a book deal there somewhere but I'm calling bullshit.
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Current: Honda Nsr 125
Live: Sunderland
Luke "cant be arsed to read your post, but suck my balls anyway."

[pendulum]

His experience reminds me of a recent trip to Amsterdam where I "overindulged". I realised I was dead when I felt and experienced things I did not think were possible to feel in this world. I watched the creation of planets. I existed outside of time yet felt like I was to be tortured for an eternity with echo's of two words I've never heard before and that don't exist in the dictionary (apparently this was my soul ID). I'll never be able to get it in to words all that I experienced, but it was because I was tired, hungry and drunk, and decided smoking a huge great blunt on top of all that was a great idea. It obviously blew my head off and totally fucked up the way my brain works.

The head injury he sustained did exactly the same to him. Nothing more sinister than that. The brain is how we experience the world and if it is damaged / drugged or otherwise altered, so can be the perception of everything. He probably believes in what he says.
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1998 CG125 (Sold) CB500 [+ Clio 172]
Usually_Wrong: I tend to fail more than pass. [Speaking about Theory Practice]
Usually_Wrong: im on unemployment at the moment

[Hetzer]

This is a pretty good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3EIU3zyntA&feature=endscreen&NR=1

It's been hypothesised that people dress the entity they meet in 'clothes' that best suit their beliefs and what they expect/want to see.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Benno]

If I ever see one of these videos NOT on the youtube account of some religious organisation I might believe it.

[Hetzer]

[Benno]

[Hetzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7E6sihLgdU

Tommy, I don't know if I linked you this before but if not you should watch it.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[T0MMY]

Ain't no way I'm getting into another discussion about this

I'll watch that though.

In return, have a read of this...

https://www.ukskeptics.com/the-dying-brain.php

Lot of very interesting points in there...it's a bit of a heavier read than the believer website stuff but meets the points rather well.

I've been reading up a bit on NDEs after our discussion so I have some points to think about:-

a) If the consciousness lives on after death, why doesn't everyone have an NDE? Only 18% report it, which seems more inline with the cause being a series of neurological factors which may or may not always occur according to the manner of death, particularly the level or speed of anoxia.

b) People who have nearly died or believe themselves to have died but never actually done so report NDEs. This seems a MAJOR point against these being evidence of life after death.

c) EEG readings are not a reliable measure of cessation of brain activity as it has been shown that they only pick up surface signals. Therefore reports of people hearing things after brain death are not necessarily accurate (although actually it has never been confirmed that NDEs have happened after death).

d) Every single feature of NDEs can be replicated in a living person by meddling with the noggin and some are routinely reported. e.g. Anoxia can create the sensation of passing through a tunnel, as reported by pilots under high G. You can induce NDEs with the correct drugs or by stimulating the right parts of the brain.

e) If NDEs are actually happening after brain activity ceases, how is the brain forming memories of them?

I have been waiting with interest for the results of Sam Parnia's study to confirm OBEs are real by placing pictures on platforms above operating tables to see if people can identify them following on OBE with the right viewpoint. He was meant to have already published last year but is dragging his heels (rumour has it he has had no hits so is continuing until he does presumably).

I discovered however that this has already been done quite a few times before and whilst people have reported OBEs during the trials, there have been no hits on the images (or numbers or words...the method varies). These trials have on the whole been carried out by believers in OBEs so they have the "correct" bias but they certainly don't seem very keen on publishing the negative results which is why you might not know about them from the NDE websites.
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[temeluchus]

Its fairly obvious-sophisticated biochemical computer gets damaged, starts generating spurious output.

Its sad to see how many will grasp at anything to reassure them death is not the end.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Benno]

[T0MMY]

My god...I'm watching that programme now. Only half way through but what a disingenuous, pseudoscientific bit of quality entertainment it is...no wonder people believe this stuff with the soothing authoritative voice of Morgan Freeman assuring us

So far I've enjoyed the bit where they entirely dismiss the similarity of anoxic effects in pilots to NDEs on the basis that, yeah they may see bright lights, head through tunnels and have out of body experiences but they don't see their relatives so it's totally different I would say that was worryingly similar, rather than different.

Took me about 5 seconds to explain why that might be too...pilot at work, having fun in the G machine or man on an operating table facing death...which one is more likely to be thinking about his wife and kids at that moment

I'm loving the microtubules bit too...got some thoughts on that but I'll wait until the end to see if they cover any of them. I do like the way they present it as having some basis though, rather than just being a very interesting hypothesis with one absolutely fundamental failing...oddly one not mentioned by that programme as yet and I strongly suspect it won't be by the end either
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[Hetzer]

[Hetzer]

[T0MMY]

[Derivative]

[Benno]

Oh god, this through the wormhole series looks brilliant, I think I'm going to be up very late tonight...

Re: this episode; the documentary makes a good show of playing both sides of the argument against each other rather than picking a side and sticking with it. The arguments against [life after death] seem a lot more sensible and realistic than the arguments for, which seem to have shakier foundations. Of course, this could be bias in itself on the part of the editors/makers.

Who knows (anything).

[T0MMY]

[mistergixer]

[Hetzer]

[T0MMY]

[Hetzer]

Well there you go; you're talking about neurons when the research has already gone much finer than that and is looking a far smaller structures within the brain.

We already know the primary differences between us Tommy. I'm very much of an intuitive nature, you are dogmatically empiricist. For me empirical proof is just a nice cap on the bottle, for you it's the entire bottle. To put it another way, and this is not to wind you up or be offensive...I'm standing in a field looking at a woods, you're right in the woods looking at the trees. You're an expert on the nuts and bolts of the machine, I see the machine without knowing much about its nuts and bolts. I have enough of an idea about them to have a rudimentary grasp of how they work, you have enough of an idea about the machine to have a rudimentary idea of what it looks like.

Which is why we can both watch the same program and come away with entirely different ideas and conclusions from it. Vive la difference, ay?
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Hetzer]

Oh, and I think you'll find the idea about the brain being 'quantum' came about because they've worked out it shouldn't actually be physically capable of doing what it does given its size.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[T0MMY]

[Hetzer]