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Adjustable handlebar position and effects

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bunglehaze
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Adjustable handlebar position and effects Reply with quote
JUst a quick question really.

I fitted a set of convertibars to my ZX10R as part of a review and although the range of adjustment for my particular bike is reduced because of fairing clearance it has allowed a more forward position rather than tight and angled.

The other day I was out and having fun, I cranked it over on a right hander and felt oddly unstable, almost as if the front dropped in too quickly or was ready to tuck, it didn't but it made me think.

My personal circumstance is that I am a big bloke in terms of width and weight, but only 5' 11". I tend to feel slightly disconnected from my bike at high speeds sometimes, I can't explain the feeling other than that, but almost as though I need to be MORE tucked up.

To my mind a set of adjustable handlebars along with rearsets would allow a much more 'custom' fit for my shape so I assumed that straightening out the bar horizontally a touch, as well as reducing the down angle (I cant tuck as much as a 10-13 stone rider thanks to my gut) would put more further forward, only a little though.

On my ride i found this was about right, having to adjust my mirrors for the change clearly puts more of my weight over the front, it actually feels no better than the previous position in terms of the slightly disconnected feeling I had but this could just be because I am not used to the dynamic of the bike with this minor change. I would say that the bars are forward by about 2cm's and the downward angle reduced by perhaps 10 degrees.

So, those of you who know about steering, suspension and the technical setup, if I am looking to feel more connected, more tucked if you will, should I be looking to put the bars back to their original position and get rearsets adjusted instead.

The feeling of a fast 'drop' when I took the right hander, could this be an actual instability caused by my minor adjustment or more likely I am just not used to that particular setting and feedback?
I don't hang off, I just struggle to do it actually, I want to push this bike a bit more and teach myself to but want to get my own positioning feeling 'right' before I start pushing to the next level.

thanks
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Walloper
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Adjusting your centre of gravity on the bike will have a degree of effect on the streering charachteristics.
You have shifted more weight over the 'top' of the front wheel so it may be digging in more when you turn.
It may only be subtle but small changes can have dramatic effects at higher speeds.

Even though yoyu are reaching forwards more try to maintain your 'seat'. This is where the bike's COG will be.
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bunglehaze
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Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
There is very little prospect of any of your minor adjustments affecting the overall stability of your bike.

This is how they build them, there is little, or no chance for the rider to adjust them into an unstable state.

Unless you're a BSB level rider?

Are you a BSB level rider?

I thought not !

What you are experiencing, is the monumental moment of realisation that you are not yet a riding God.

What I mean is, you own a very capable & practical sports bike, lots of people own the very same bike & yet they do not experience how you feel. How can this be so?

It might be because they might have already achieved the status of 'riding God' before they sought & bought a ZX10R.

It might also be that they're 'wannabee's who bought the bike in the hope that they would instantly turn into a 'riding God'. . . .

Either way, the man maketh the bike. Poor workmen blame their tools . . . etc. etc. etc.


Well, that seems to be a little bit of a piss take really.

First of all, where did I ever claim to be a riding 'god'? Erm nowhere... In fact anyone on here who thinks they are riding god are deluded - regardless of how many stages you think you have 'progressed' through.

My question was not anywhere closely based on - I am epic but my bike is wrong, I have added a modification that has made the bike feel different so how about climbing down off your pedastal that is so much higher than the rest of us mere mortals and reading the OP before being so high and mighty.
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Last edited by bunglehaze on 17:25 - 07 Jul 2012; edited 1 time in total
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bunglehaze
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
Adjusting your centre of gravity on the bike will have a degree of effect on the streering charachteristics.
You have shifted more weight over the 'top' of the front wheel so it may be digging in more when you turn.
It may only be subtle but small changes can have dramatic effects at higher speeds.

Even though yoyu are reaching forwards more try to maintain your 'seat'. This is where the bike's COG will be.


Thanks fella, it looks like you have taken the time to read the meat of the post.

That is the throught I had, perhaps the tyres and suspension were flexing and moving about more than I have experienced before, the main thing I was hoping for was confirmation that something so little would not make such a big difference to stability so I can get past the feedback and learn how the bike feels now - thanks
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bunglehaze
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
bunglehaze wrote:


Thanks fella, it looks like you have taken the time to read the meat of the post.


I apologise on your behalf, I didn't realise this was a 'Warped' thread.


Nothing of the sort:

Me: I changed something on my bike, it feels different but I cant tell if it has made it unstable, could it be a problem?

You: You have a zx10r, you are not good enough to ride the zx10r, stop thinking you are a god..

See where an issue arose?

I have been riding a while, my last bike felt fine, I didnt get the feeling I was disconnected from it like i do this one, what exactly is the harm in asking for advice and/or changing parts that affect my riding position in order to feel better on the bike?
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WannaBeDude
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 07 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
bunglehaze wrote:


Thanks fella, it looks like you have taken the time to read the meat of the post.


I apologise on your behalf, I didn't realise this was a 'Warped' thread.


Cunt .. Your doing the cunt bit wrong.
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lihp
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Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 08 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just googled convertibars, so now I know what we're talking about I will add my thoughts.

Raising the bars, if you're not riding everywhere tucked up with elbows in line with bars and forearms parallel with the floor then you're not getting maximum steering effort. Raising the bars allows you to sit more upright and have a better arm position to get maximum steering effort from a reduced amount of physical exertion. This will give you a feeling that the bike is turning faster or more unstable.

You also comment that it felt like the front was going to tuck under at times. The bars also look quite a bit wider, this will give you more leverage on the bars, and again will make it far easier to steer the bike a lot faster. These 2 together, with you being used to the low clip ons, will be contributing to the instability that you "feel". Not that it exists, as a racer will turn the biker far faster, and keep it stable, but only small ergonomic changes are required to make a noticeable difference to the feeling of a bike
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anthony_r6
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Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 08 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
I don't think that I am.

Some TWAT is asking us how he should 'sit' on his rocketship. I am merely pointing out the obvious, that maybe a Zx10R is a little bit above & beyond the OP's current capabilities.

These, experiments, should have been sorted already, on the path that gets you to a place where you can handle a rocketship, don't you think?


At first I thought you were just another user-account for that know-it-all dumb fuck Babba. But it would appear you're a completely different know-it-all dumb fuck. Middle Finger Middle Finger
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Walloper
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 05:36 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
covdude wrote:


Cunt .. Your doing the cunt bit wrong.


I don't think that I am.

Some TWAT is asking us how he should 'sit' on his rocketship. I am merely pointing out the obvious, that maybe a Zx10R is a little bit above & beyond the OP's current capabilities.

These, experiments, should have been sorted already, on the path that gets you to a place where you can handle a rocketship, don't you think?


Are you a deranged fukwit or just a normal fukwit?
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jetski
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
There is very little prospect of any of your minor adjustments affecting the overall stability of your bike.

This is how they build them, there is little, or no chance for the rider to adjust them into an unstable state.

Unless you're a BSB level rider?

Are you a BSB level rider?

I thought not !

What you are experiencing, is the monumental moment of realisation that you are not yet a riding God.

What I mean is, you own a very capable & practical sports bike, lots of people own the very same bike & yet they do not experience how you feel. How can this be so?

It might be because they might have already achieved the status of 'riding God' before they sought & bought a ZX10R.

It might also be that they're 'wannabee's who bought the bike in the hope that they would instantly turn into a 'riding God'. . . .

Either way, the man maketh the bike. Poor workmen blame their tools . . . etc. etc. etc.


What a bizarre response.... Did you even read the original post or did you just read the first 3 letters and guess the rest?
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jetski
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
There is very little prospect of any of your minor adjustments affecting the overall stability of your bike.

This is how they build them, there is little, or no chance for the rider to adjust them into an unstable state.

Unless you're a BSB level rider?

Are you a BSB level rider?

I thought not !

What you are experiencing, is the monumental moment of realisation that you are not yet a riding God.

What I mean is, you own a very capable & practical sports bike, lots of people own the very same bike & yet they do not experience how you feel. How can this be so?

It might be because they might have already achieved the status of 'riding God' before they sought & bought a ZX10R.

It might also be that they're 'wannabee's who bought the bike in the hope that they would instantly turn into a 'riding God'. . . .

Either way, the man maketh the bike. Poor workmen blame their tools . . . etc. etc. etc.


What a bizarre response.... Did you even read the original post or did you just read the first 3 letters and guess the rest?
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U_W v2.0
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 May 2012
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
Raising the bars, if you're not riding everywhere tucked up with elbows in line with bars and forearms parallel with the floor then you're not getting maximum steering effort. Raising the bars allows you to sit more upright and have a better arm position to get maximum steering effort from a reduced amount of physical exertion. This will give you a feeling that the bike is turning faster or more unstable.


this is mentioned in that cornering bible video on youtube and explains it quite well with visual aid. (i learn best by seeing/doing) so worth checking out that video for that bit alone.
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bunglehaze
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Barnaby wrote:
covdude wrote:


Cunt .. Your doing the cunt bit wrong.


I don't think that I am.

Some TWAT is asking us how he should 'sit' on his rocketship. I am merely pointing out the obvious, that maybe a Zx10R is a little bit above & beyond the OP's current capabilities.

These, experiments, should have been sorted already, on the path that gets you to a place where you can handle a rocketship, don't you think?


Oh please stop, some anonymous, faceless, oddly aggressive and it would seem either illiterate or dense forum troll is calling me names - how this hurts.

First of all, read the post, then comment or you run the risk of coming across like a bit of a twat yourself really.

Nowhere did I ask for advice on where to sit on my 'rocketship', I do that well enough thanks on my own. Like every bike before I have tweaked it to suit my preference - why should my ZX10R be any different and why would my feeling disconnected from this bike be down to me not being 'ready' for it?

Can you tell me if the back or front ends have been adjusted on this bike by the last owner - erm, no. Therefore the way each bike feels is going to be different from the last and each rider should take the time to try and figure out what needs changing to suit.

@phildawson - thanks. The convertibars in my case have not really been raised, merely the angles reduced. My thinking there was that if I have a 30" shoulder width I should be looking to have my bars setup slightly differently to the rider it was designed around perhaps only having 22" width.

My arms are no longer than standard, nor are my legs so I tried setting the convertibars at the same height to give the same reach but due to the steering damper on this bike could only fit them in the forward position - thus extending my reach, and with it my body position.

Dilligaf_no - again, thanks I will look it up and see.

Interestingly I got someone on my bike who has the same model, he felt the original bars were slightly higher up than his. I do run my suspension a lot harder than most to deal with 18+stone of me bouncing along so perhaps that has something to do with it.

In any case, I think I am going to try getting my rearsets about an inch back and have the bars as they are now, a touch more forward than stock and see what difference that would make.

If adding a couple of centimeters reach towards the front of the bike has made it feel a little more unsettled but no more tucked up, adding a little more rearwards reach in the rearsets should (in theory) put me back in a similar, more neutral position and perhaps get my centre of gravity back where it should be?

Or would it?

cheers folks.
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lihp
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 09 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
the angles are steep as the clip ons are set for the body position hung off the bike, which is the natural position to be in on a sports machine.

Straightening up the bars will also increase your leverage, and can be quite useful to do on a machine that is primarily used on the road.

In fact, on some circuits that had predominantly more turns in 1 direction than the other, Carl Fogarty used to flatten the bar off that was inside the turns as much as he could for comfort
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bunglehaze
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 12 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a decent ride yesterday and oddly it felt fantastic, no hint of the front tucking. I think it may have just been a difference in the feedback was being processed by my brain as negative, no massive surprise after I had done 250 miles on it a few days before and then 150 after fitting the convertibars Smile

cheers guys.
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