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Failure to display Mot Disc

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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

Just received a £60 fine from DVA for failing to display my test disc correctly. The disc is highly visible but not inside a tax disc type holder which meant I got a fine, are these idiots blind or just stupid or maybe both. Fair enough the rules state that it should be inside a holder but it is just as visible as it would be in a car windscreen, just another money making scam imo.
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

Had a gander at their website, doesn't mention a holder as such.

DVLA Buffoons wrote:


Displaying your tax disc

Your vehicle tax disc must be displayed on the passenger side (kerb side) of the vehicle’s windscreen. If there’s no windscreen or you have a motorcycle or sidecar, you should display the tax disc on the kerb side of the vehicle.
A current tax disc must be displayed on the vehicle it was bought for. If you buy a new tax disc before your current tax disc expires, you should not display the new one until the old one has expired. The new tax disc is only valid from the first day of the month you have taxed from. The maximum penalty for failure to display a current tax disc is £200. The tax disc can not be transferred between vehicles.
If you use the electronic vehicle licensing service or tax by post at the end of the month, there’s now an exemption for not displaying a tax disc. This exemption covers the first five working days of the month to allow time for the new disc to arrive in the post. While you are still waiting for your tax disc you will need to display your current tax disc. The exemption only applies if applications are made before the current tax disc or SORN expires.

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ca you post a pic of the letter/ticket?
Remember to hide your personal info such as reg, address, name and DVLA ref number.

It could be some scam bollocks latter.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 10:57 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:
Failure to display Mot Disc...Just received a £60 fine from DVA for failing to display my test disc correctly. ...

Confused
Take it you mean the road tax disc.
Do you mean the DVLA?

Prepared to take this post at face value but there has already been similar topics and posts recently.

Picture required I think. Plus more details of the bike, display position and where and when this occurred.

Was it just a notice posted on the bike or did you actually have a conversation with someone?

As said, could be a scam

Confused
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

janner_10 wrote:
Had a gander at their website, doesn't mention a holder as such.

DVLA Buffoons wrote:


Displaying your tax disc

Your vehicle tax disc must be displayed on the passenger side (kerb side) of the vehicle’s windscreen. If there’s no windscreen or you have a motorcycle or sidecar, you should display the tax disc on the kerb side of the vehicle.
A current tax disc must be displayed on the vehicle it was bought for. If you buy a new tax disc before your current tax disc expires, you should not display the new one until the old one has expired. The new tax disc is only valid from the first day of the month you have taxed from. The maximum penalty for failure to display a current tax disc is £200. The tax disc can not be transferred between vehicles.
If you use the electronic vehicle licensing service or tax by post at the end of the month, there’s now an exemption for not displaying a tax disc. This exemption covers the first five working days of the month to allow time for the new disc to arrive in the post. While you are still waiting for your tax disc you will need to display your current tax disc. The exemption only applies if applications are made before the current tax disc or SORN expires.


Not a tax disc, its the MOT disc
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

map wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
Failure to display Mot Disc...Just received a £60 fine from DVA for failing to display my test disc correctly. ...

Confused
Take it you mean the road tax disc.
Do you mean the DVLA?

Prepared to take this post at face value but there has already been similar topics and posts recently.

Picture required I think. Plus more details of the bike, display position and where and when this occurred.

Was it just a notice posted on the bike or did you actually have a conversation with someone?

As said, could be a scam

Confused


No, its the MOT disc issued by DVA (N.I), they stated that the disc should have been in a holder and that the screen was tinted making the disc unreadable, this pic was taken in a covered darkened gateway and the disc is highly visible and readable imo

https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/mawlarky/Picture095.jpg
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:


Not a tax disc, its the MOT disc


I have no idea what one of those is sorry.

EDIT: Seems a NI thing, we don't have them over here.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, that's a new one on me.

First up, you haven't been "fined", you've been given an opportunity to pay a bribe and admit guilt.

If you don't, then it's probably up to them to prosecute and convict you in a court. I say "probably" because VERA 1994 has some very interesting ideas about the burden of proof for some offences.

Whether they can convict you entirely depends on the statute; you'll need to find that and read it carefully. Do they mention it with that demand for a bribe?

For comparison, if it were a tax disc then it would have to be fixed to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect the licence from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed ... on the near side of the vehicle ... so exhibited that all the particulars on the licence are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.

I stress that's for VED discs though, you're going to have to find the statute and regulations - if any - that govern display of that test disc.
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article does state that the disc should be in a holder when on a motorcycle, it sis in a car type disc holder though its not water proof but still does the same job imo. Very petty I think.



Mandatory display of MOT Disc from 1st May 2008

MOT Disc


From 1 May 2008 an amendment to the Motor Vehicle Testing Regulations is introducing mandatory display of vehicle test certificates (MOTs).

Background

In 2001 the Driver & Vehicle Agency introduced a new two-part vehicle test certificate for cars and motorcycles. Part two of the vehicle test certificate (the disc) should be displayed on the inside of the windscreen. It should be placed on the passenger's side and should be close to the edge of the windscreen, so as not to cause an obstruction to the driver's view of the road.

In the case of motorcycles the certificate should be displayed on the nearside of the motorcycle in a weatherproof container.

Failure to display the disc will be an offence and may result in a fine of up to £200.

Please be advised 'Only vehicles tested in Northern Ireland under the motor vehicle testing regulations are required to display the disc provided when they pass their MOT'.

Vehicles tested in Great Britain are not required to display a disc.

How to get a Duplicate Certificate?

Should you require any further help or advice on this subject please contact us on the number below.

Compliance Section
Tel No: 028 9025 4171
Fax No: 028 9025 4407

Compliance Section
News Archive
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 12:23 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:
This article does state that the disc should be in a holder when on a motorcycle, it sis in a car type disc holder though its not water proof but still does the same job imo. Very petty I think...In the case of motorcycles the certificate should be displayed on the nearside of the motorcycle in a weatherproof container....


I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
Government wrote:
After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).

(2) Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate shall be displayed on the vehicle—

(a)in the case of a light motor bicycle or motor bicycle, other than in a case specified in sub-paragraph (b) or (c), on the near side of the vehicle;

(b)in the case of a light motor bicycle or motor bicycle drawing a side-car or to which a side-car is attached, on the near side of the handlebars of the bicycle or on the near side of the side-car;

(c)in the case of a vehicle fitted with a glass windscreen in front of the driver extending across the vehicle to its near side, on or adjacent to the near side of the windscreen;

(d)in the case of any other vehicle —
(i)if the vehicle is fitted with a driver’s cab containing a near side window, on that window; or
(ii)on the near side of the vehicle in front of the driver’s seat and not less than 760 mm and not more than 1.8 metres above the surface of the road.

(3) In the case of each vehicle referred to in paragraph (2), Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate shall be so displayed that all the particulars are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.”.


So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible.

Where you're getting waterproof container from in the news release as it doesn't appear in the statute. The nearest is "a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather" that you have achieved using the sticky backed plastic method.

Is there a date and time that this alleged crime took place? If there is a time is it what you would describe as daytime (for daylight?), rather than say dusk.

Just some points. Maybe take some legal advice if you want to challenge it based on the actual wording of the statute rather than some press release.

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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The police officer who stopped stated that as the screen was tinted and not in a waterproof container that the regs require, I have sent the same pic to DVA as I am contesting the fine, just a money making scam on behalf of the DVA and brownie point collecting for the police imo. The weatherproof/waterproof container was from the DVA website.https://www.dvtani.gov.uk/News/newsdetails.asp?id=1280
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 13:49 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:
The police officer who stopped stated that as the screen was tinted...
As far as I can see that's ok. You can put it on a tinted screen. In fact from your photo it's actually on a clearer part of the screen, heavy tint at the edges. Should be fine if visible in daylight. Again your picture would indicate this. Maybe take some actually in daylight to check (at least no flash reflection showing on screen).

moonzoomer wrote:
... and not in a waterproof container that the regs require..
The regs only appear to require it to be weatherproof. Placing so that it is sealed at the edge IMHO would make it weatherproof, your picture appears this is the case.

Nice to know the police are consistent in other parts of the UK. It's not what the regulations say but what they think it says or was told what it should be in the canteen.

moonzoomer wrote:
...I have sent the same pic to DVA as I am contesting the fine
It's a government body so don't be surprised if they ignore this evidence.

moonzoomer wrote:
...The weatherproof/waterproof container was from the DVA website.https://www.dvtani.gov.uk/News/newsdetails.asp?id=1280
As said, regulations do not mention waterproof or container, just weatherproof. I had a road tax in a car sticky holder on the screen of my GT550 for years. No problems.

Out of interest what does the actual ticket given to you be the police say? Did they actually give you anything if you got this via DVA?


Hope you get it sorted Thumbs Up
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GREENI3
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:
this pic was taken in a covered darkened gateway and the disc is highly visible and readable imo

https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/mawlarky/Picture095.jpg
I'm sure the flash from the camera had no effect on enhancing the visibility of the disc. Rolling Eyes

Show us a pic in daylight before we can make an accurate judgement.
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wtf is an MOT disc
Shocked

Oh Northern Ireland, fuck that
Sorry, dunno Thumbs Down

Glad we don't have that here, keep quiet, don't give them any ideas
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wins teh internets. Sadly, there is a statutory basis behind it, The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995.

The wording of the regs for the test disc appears to be identical to the ones for VED discs, which is fair enough.

moonzoomer wrote:
I have sent the same pic to DVA as I am contesting the fine

What fine?

Again: you have not been "fined". There's nothing to "contest" yet, although they may choose to drop it at this point. You're just declining the opportunity to bribe them.

You'll want to get a picture in bright daylight and if it's clearly visible on that, invite them to either prosecute you or get fucked. Which really just means ignoring them until and unless you get a summons.

Sounds like an anti-bike copper, looking for any excuse to screw you over.
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

BlueCB wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
this pic was taken in a covered darkened gateway and the disc is highly visible and readable imo

https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/mawlarky/Picture095.jpg
I'm sure the flash from the camera had no effect on enhancing the visibility of the disc. Rolling Eyes

Show us a pic in daylight before we can make an accurate judgement.


taken in natural light, no flash
https://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n604/mawlarky/MVC-336F-1.jpg
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha-9 wrote:
Wtf is an MOT disc
Shocked

Oh Northern Ireland, fuck that
Sorry, dunno Thumbs Down

Glad we don't have that here, keep quiet, don't give them any ideas


Laughing could be worse you also have to display your insurance in the south of Ireland.
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GREENI3
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

moonzoomer wrote:
Not too bad.
They're probably just kicking up a fuss because the screens tinted.
That, or whoever's job it is to go round checking these things, does so accompanied by a guide dog.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 17:45 - 10 Sep 2012    Post subject: Re: Failure to display Mot Disc Reply with quote

BlueCB wrote:
moonzoomer wrote:
Not too bad.
They're probably just kicking up a fuss because the screens tinted.
That, or whoever's job it is to go round checking these things, does so accompanied by a guide dog.

Actually FWIW on that pic to me it doesn't look that tinted.
Certainly not hidden and info is visible.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 11 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
Government wrote:
After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).

<snip>


So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible.


Highlighted it in italics just a word before your first bolding...

Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter of the law. Maybe he can wriggle out of it on the "to which it would otherwise be exposed" by pointing out rain can't fall up and to the left.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:15 - 11 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any wiggling is required. Take along that picture, or for that matter park the bike outside and invite the bench to go and look at it. Ask "Has it blown off or got soaked? Can you see it? No, yes? Costs, please."

Worst case, plead to be admonished. If there's ever a case that should have been dealt with by "words of advice" it's this one.

But like chilli soaked buggery would I pay that bribe. Prosecute or GTFO, and if it's No Further Actioned, let the local cop shop know. A "ha ha" wouldn't be out of order.
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 11 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I don't think any wiggling is required. Take along that picture, or for that matter park the bike outside and invite the bench to go and look at it. Ask "Has it blown off or got soaked? Can you see it? No, yes? Costs, please."

Worst case, plead to be admonished. If there's ever a case that should have been dealt with by "words of advice" it's this one.

But like chilli soaked buggery would I pay that bribe. Prosecute or GTFO, and if it's No Further Actioned, let the local cop shop know. A "ha ha" wouldn't be out of order.

I have sent the pics to the DVA stating that I will not be any any penalty/fine, if they decide to take the matter to court I will be taking the fairing and screen with me and letting the court decide hoping that common sense will prevail. If the case is thrown out the police will be brought to the attention of the Ombusmans office.
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moonzoomer
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 11 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
map wrote:
I was intrigued by this so went off and did a google.
The amendment statutue is here - The Motor Vehicle Testing (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2008 - No. 109 Regulation 3.
Government wrote:
After regulation 14 of the principal Regulations insert the following regulation—
“Display of test certificates and duplicate test certificates14A—(1) Where a vehicle test certificate is issued under regulation 12 or 13, or a duplicate of an original certificate is issued under regulation 18, in each case Part 2 of that certificate or that duplicate (in this regulation called “Part 2 of the certificate or duplicate”) shall be attached to the vehicle in a holder sufficient to protect it from the weather to which it would otherwise be exposed and shall be carried on the vehicle at all times when the vehicle is on a road or other public place and shall be displayed as specified in paragraphs (2) and (3).

<snip>


So, no mention of a holder unless you can show me where I've missed it. Clearly visible in daylight is an arguable point as it is down to personal opinion. As can be seen from the photo it is visible.


Highlighted it in italics just a word before your first bolding...

Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter of the law. Maybe he can wriggle out of it on the "to which it would otherwise be exposed" by pointing out rain can't fall up and to the left.


If you think that rule is stupid it gets worse, the DVA are trying to get a new rule put through for next January that will effect drivers who have just passed their tests " any driver 24 years old or younger cannot carry a young passenger unless a member of the drivers family"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18249137
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itsallgood
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 12 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's insane.

I have the MOT disc on one side of my bike, the tax disc on the other just because it's the only place I could mount the holders and it looks neater having them like that.....The tax disc is on the near side but am I asking for bother having the MOT disc on the off side?

I'm guessing the real issue here is they pulled the OP because he is on a bike, and because they couldn't find anything to book him for they decide to be bell ends about a bloody MOT disc.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 20:47 - 12 Sep 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
map wrote:
<stuff>
<other stuff>...
Kinda stupid rule though, OP was following the spirit if not the letter...
moonzoomer wrote:
If you think that rule is stupid it gets worse..." any driver 24 years old or younger cannot carry a young passenger unless a member of the drivers family"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18249137

Very Happy
That shouldn't be a problem I thought you were all related in that part of the world anyhow Wink Razz
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