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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 07:48 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: DVLA/Insurance/Sorn Laws |
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This thread is pretty much for my own documentation as well as any input from peoples that may help people in future on this subject.
My dilema:
I own 2 cars, both shitboxes sat on the street while uninsured but taxed.
Legally you now apparently have to have vehicles insured to be on the road taxed unless they're SORN'd.
So I have 2 cars causing no harm sat on the street obstructing nothing, although I can't insure either because all insurance companies I've spoken to have asked for proof of my licence (for convictions etc) and I don't get mine back until the middle of January.
DVLA letter came yesterday saying my 306 tax is showing uninsured on askMID and I now owe a 100quid fine and can SORN it or let them take it away. I called them, informed them and they will only take an 'appeal' in writing. Great.
So since they've taken my licence I can't insure, I can't SORN because where they are on the street is the only space I have for them, until they're sold and driven away. Any tips...?  ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| sickpup |
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 sickpup Old Timer

Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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| Spangle2k4 |
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 Spangle2k4 Borekit Bruiser
Joined: 28 Jun 2011 Karma :    
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| anthony_r6 |
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 anthony_r6 World Chat Champion

Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Karma :    
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 08:10 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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I believe that there is case law that just keeping a vehicle on a road requires it to be insured (what if it rolls down a hill or catches fire?) although it's before Google O'clock. Anyone?
However, I'm going to note that the actual wording is:
| Road Traffic Act 1988 wrote: |
143 Users of motor vehicles to be insured or secured against third-party risks.
(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act—
(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act |
Since Plod are now so keen on nabbing us for particular uses of vehicles - commuting, carrying pillions - it seems a bit off that not using it requires insurance.
However, that's a "see you in court" argument, if those cars are spotted on the road without insurance then they're liable to be seized and you could be facing a prosecution.
Get them insured any way that you can, or be prepared to lawyer up.
As to the demand for a bribe, be aware that it'll double up to £100 per vehicle. I don't know what you were thinking by contacting them, that will only encourage them.
Providing that you insure or move them off road and SORN, I'd go ahead and ignore it. I did, never heard any more about it. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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| symonh2000 |
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 symonh2000 Crazy Courier
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Karma :     
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 10:17 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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No, I had stored 1 at a mates place a while ago but he's moved to Norfolk last month; my dad has his car on the drive and the nearest family are 45miles away.
I was trying to keep hold of the 306 for when I could drive it again so I had a cage for work and errands but I guess it'll just have to go.
Space for a bike.  ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 10:26 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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It's a shitter, but since you weren't fussed about insuring them, why not just SORN them as well? Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Vracktal |
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 Vracktal World Chat Champion

Joined: 04 Oct 2012 Karma :  
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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| Vracktal |
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 Vracktal World Chat Champion

Joined: 04 Oct 2012 Karma :  
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| Bomberman |
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 Bomberman World Chat Champion

Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 12:09 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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Can't help but notice that says 'driveway' cover. I'd be surprised if you were insured for on street by that. ____________________ 'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare  |
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| P.addy |
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 P.addy Red Rocket
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 13:08 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| Vracktal wrote: | I know it feels like extortion having to pay the DVLA when imho you did nothing wrong, but unfortunately the DVLA will get nasty and take you to court over it |
They dropped it with me. I had two bikes uninsured but not SORNed for 6 months, and received the nastygram reminder, the "pay us £50" then "pay us £100" demands and ignored them.
Haven't heard anything for a year now.
| Vracktal wrote: | as they love to do, and then argue that you broke the letter of the law- and even though the law is stupid in this regard, the judge would still side with them. |
Depends. sickpup tore them a new one in court over declaring SORN using the Interpretations Act. However, the continuous insurance offence tries to do an end run around that by requiring that "evidence is adduced that is sufficient to raise an issue with respect to [the defence]". What that means in practice will be up to Magistrates to decide - it could go either way if you note that the DVLA don't obtain so much as proof of posting, let alone recorded delivery of their blackmail letters.
Worst case though, just offer them a bribe at the courtroom door. They're just after money, they don't give a snot whether you get convicted of an offence and put swill in the general trough. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 15:16 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| Bomberman wrote: |
Can't help but notice that says 'driveway' cover. I'd be surprised if you were insured for on street by that. | Me too, but that's the best benchmark I can find and I'm hoping they do say no, then when DVLA get me up in court I can plead not guilty to not having any insurance and this time actually be expecting a reasonable outcome.
It was a silly law brought in and lazily only covers mainstream uses and expectation; if I send my tax disc back now and keep it where it is but SORN'd it isn't off the road, so I'm assuming they can come and take it regardless? ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| Shinigami |
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 Shinigami World Chat Champion

Joined: 14 Feb 2012 Karma :   
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| stuartt |
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 stuartt World Chat Champion

Joined: 28 Jun 2012 Karma :   
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| Bomberman |
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 Bomberman World Chat Champion

Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:01 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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It's fine if it's taxed mate.
edit; added 'It's' for clarity And further edit to suggest you read further  ____________________ 'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare 
Last edited by Bomberman on 16:20 - 04 Oct 2012; edited 2 times in total |
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| map |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:02 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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| stuartt |
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 stuartt World Chat Champion

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| Bomberman |
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 Bomberman World Chat Champion

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| map |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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| Bomberman |
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 Bomberman World Chat Champion

Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:20 - 04 Oct 2012 Post subject: |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 269 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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