Derp.. Frame swap, 1 issue.

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

I have a WR450F.

Just bought a frame for a WR426 as they appeared to look very similar and was road legal.

My first issue is the oil tank on the WR426 appears to be in the frame and has 1 pipe heading down to the sump.

My WR450F engine has a filler cap on the crankcase and then has a pipe from the clutch cover into the frame through 1 pipe, back out through another pipe and into the other side of the engine.

There is no pump in the frame obviously...so it looks like it just goes through a filter.

Now I'm all for bodges, but with a proper nice engine, I'd rather not. Thinking if I get a piece of metal in a U shape, I can just put that in and clamp it on then the oil will flow through as normal.

Does it sound like it will work?

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

To help issues.... I have drawn a bad diagram.

Brown is my current setup in old frame.
Pink is what the new frame had previously.
Yellow is what I would think works best.

Orange dot is filler cap, blue square is frame.
Dark grey is oil lines from/to the engine.
Red dotted is the estimated path of current oil
Solid red is a metal pipe joining the 2 rubber hoses.

Sorry for the really shit paint..

https://super-user.co.uk/reallybaddiagram.png

jimspeed · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Karma :

You need to find out what exactly the pipe does on the 450 engine, it could just pump it thru a steel pipe to cool the oil a bit (less exposed than a proper oil cooler maybe)
if the 426 had a tank in the frame then that engine mush be dry sumped at a guess? and the 450 definatly is a wet sump ? but yes you could join both pipes together so the oil flows straight thru them or maybe get a pipe made up to do it in 1 go so no joints to leak etc. i wouldn't be blanking them off anyway Thumbs Up

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Hyosung cruise 125(passed test on, sold) Kawasaki el 252 (better than expected but sold on) Kawasaki GPZ500S first "big"bike.(sold) ZZR600 E5..Z750 2007,ER5, currently on a 2008 Enfield bullet electra x and loving it..
,"Alpha-9: Is there any correlation between dyno rod and dyno kits?"

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

Wouldn't blank them, I physically just wanted to join them, if it seems sane to people on here Laughing

jimspeed · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Karma :

can you not see what the function of the bit the pipes joined to did on the 450 frame or don't you have it all?
____________________
Hyosung cruise 125(passed test on, sold) Kawasaki el 252 (better than expected but sold on) Kawasaki GPZ500S first "big"bike.(sold) ZZR600 E5..Z750 2007,ER5, currently on a 2008 Enfield bullet electra x and loving it..
,"Alpha-9: Is there any correlation between dyno rod and dyno kits?"

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

_Iain_ · Banned Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Karma :

Pitbike oil cooler between said hoses.

Cheap, works, cools oil, can be made to fit very easy. Should be fine.

Cant/wont be a filter in the frame as it would mean a frame swap if you needed to clean it Laughing

At a guess its routed through there for either oil cooling, a little extra capacity, a 2nd feed of oil to avoid starvation for the few seconds whilst wheelieing/jumps etc, or durability as you might damage a hard pipe of that length/might be easier to break etc.

I thinks anyway. Thumbs Up

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Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

Filter is in the frame, 3 of the fuckers in the bike

_Iain_ · Banned Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Karma :

Nah. I cant belive that they'd actually design a non replaceable filter on a bike thats built to be ragged.

So if the bottom end shits itself you've gotta replace the frame? Makes no sense. Confused

____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

It's very common for dirt bikes to have 'dry sump' designs, with the oil stored in the frame.

Dry sump means you don't have to worry so much about oil sloshing about and missing the pickup when going up/down hill etc. The frame is just a convenient empty container. On my CCM you filled it up from just behind the yolk.

The recentish Buells actually store fuel in the frame I believe, with oil stored in the swingarm!

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

It's replaceable. It sits behind an 8mm bolt.

I might end up just being bodge and keeping same frame lol

The TTR was dry sump, odd thing.

This one has a sump bolt, a dip stick and filler on the actual casing, so different from the TTR in that respect. Think this is purely wet sump, especially as the oil flow diagram says it picks oil up from the oil pan...

I'll load it here.

_Iain_ · Banned Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Karma :

Lol, shut me right up then.

In which case, you need this;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-UNIVERSAL-OIL-FILTER-NEW-/221175209863?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item337f11df87

https://i.ebayimg.com/t/BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-UNIVERSAL-OIL-FILTER-NEW-/21/!BeDtHGgB2k~$(KGrHqYH-EQErgv!IWRgBK7sG9PeLw~~_12.JPG

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-OIL-FILTER-KIT-NORTONS-TRIUMPH-ANY-OTHER-/310578816326?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item484ff0a546

https://i.ebayimg.com/t/UNIVERSAL-OIL-FILTER-KIT-NORTONS-TRIUMPH-ANY-OTHER-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqNHJE4E-lQBrvh(BPwLt)IYr!~~60_12.JPG

A bracket to be made up out of some spare sheet metal/whatevers lying around, and probbaby a hose or two of appropriate size.
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

https://super-user.co.uk/oil1.png

https://super-user.co.uk/oil2.png

I know this is part of the "pressure" path for the oil, the scavenge stuff is the usual parts...so definitely wet sump Thumbs Up

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Just quickly; have you seen this?
https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/103536-yz450-in-a-yz426-frame/
First result in google.

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

Hi

Seems a bit strange.

The printed diagrams look like a dry sump setup. One pump (no need for high pressure) to scavenge the oil from the sump and push it to a tank, and then a feed from that down to the proper high pressure pump. However on a setup like this I would expect the filler to be on the oil tank rather than the sump.

The way you describe the 426 is even stranger. Can't really see how it would work to have a remote tank with a single pipe to / from it. Downloading the owners manual (which is pretty in depth it seems, more a workshop manual) does state it is a dry sump engine.

Pretty much exactly the same oil flow chart is in both the WR426 and WR450 owners handbooks. There must be an extra pipe on the WR426 hidden somewhere.

All the best

Keith
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P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

I believe A-A is the sump with a pump in there (number 5)

On the left diagram, I think A is the other pump.

I still can't see how its a dry sump when it takes oil in the standard fashion and pumps it round fairly similar to the SV/any oil cooled lump?

Can you see that engines are not my thing Laughing

temeluchus · World Chat Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Karma :

I wonder if the oil tank is a reservoir of oil that is a reserve for when the thing is at funny angles/going over jumps to make sure it isnt starved of oil until the bike is upright and oil is pumped normally again?

If that makes sense?
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P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

garth · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Karma :

You have a spare frame with V5 and frame numbers.

You have a stolen recovered bike frame and a grinder.

You can buy punches for about a tenner.

= Profit?!
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P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

Kickstart · The Oracle Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :

MaybeGuy · Super Spammer Joined: 12 Mar 2007 Karma :

Be a bit careful if you decide to work some magic.
Should the bike need a police inspection for any reason, they're pretty savvy about spotting dodgy numbers, font, spacings etc. there's a lot more than meets the eye on a frame number.

Personally, I think the best thing that could be done would be to make a jig from the frame, and swap/reweld the headstock.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!! Mr. Green

Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

OK, so this is going to get sorted tomorrow.

Anyone know the stamp size required for a frame number? Can only find 3mm and 5mm punches locally Neutral

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

As with matt; I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually get more done for doing that than just for stealing a bike!
Perverting the course of justice, etc.

If it was a blank frame, I'd say go for it - but if you do get attention for some reason, I'd worry about what could happen. Saying that, never been stopped on a dirt bike that I can remember, but it does seem fairly likely.