Just had a thought - non-flat tyres?

[Gazz]

Maybe there is a good reason for this, but I had a wee thought while randomly riding the bike the other day... and the thought was: instead of filling a tyre with air, why not use some foam instead?

Why has none of the big tyre companies done this before (to my knowledge)?

What about that type of foam that you put round pipes in the loft for example - it looks flexible enough to go round a circle, it feels strong enough that it wont flex too much and make the rim hit the ground if you went over a bump and it would mean no punctures.

Am I missing something here?

[fatjames]

They did this, but the supermarkets lost too many 20p's because no one needed air. That was the end of that idea.

[radicalrabit]

bike tyres need to change shape to get max contact with the road , if the tyres remained a constant shape they would not have the same grip,

Car tyres are a different matter as their contact patch remains fairly constant but the side walls of the tyre effect handling as they deform and act as part of the suspension making them more rigid would not be a good thing.
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VF1000 F2F, BLACKBIRD with carbs, 2nd VF1000F2F just need somewhere to go now..

[Speed]

This'll be the future...

https://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/tweel-1.jpg

[fatpies]

[thx1138]

are those enduro /dakkar etc style mousses an MOT fail?

and, is it obvious at an MOT that such substances are present in the tube/tyres?

[jjdugen]

1. Pneumatic tyres are a throwback to Victorian days. They were the only 'suspension' that pushbikes had to alleviate the cobbled roads of the day. This has continued to the present day as a relatively cheap way to give ride comfort without needing more expensive suspension designs.
2. Motorcycle tyre do NOT 'need' to deform to work, they just do because of the loads imposed.
3. 'Solid' tyres should have been introduced as soon as vehicles became capable of the sustained high speeds we now take for granted.

A 'solid' tyre i.e. one with suitable bracing / filling would eliminate catastrophic deflations... so why in this era of the safety Nazis has this NOT been a number one priority of our Euro masters?
Consider, too, the ability to unbolt the two halves of a wheel rim, remove old tyre and replace with a fresh one at home.
Tyres seem to be an international conspiracy to make money at the expense of safety and convenience.
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[snikks]

I have a pair of these: https://www.greentyre.co.uk/bike.html on my push-bike, and they are absolutely fine in terms of comfort etc. I'm not sure why they couldn't do the same thing for motorcycles/cars - but if I had to guess it would be that the tyre manufacturers make a lot of money through damaged tyres needing replacement - so where's the motivation for them to encourage tyres that stand up to it all better? and they have enough heft to influence which tyres are allowed on the road.
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- CBT: 02/01/11 Theory: 26/04/11 Mod 1: 19/05/11 Mod 2: 19/08/11
- 2007 Honda XL125V Varadero (Sold), 1999 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer (Sold), 2001 CBR600F

[G]

[Suntan Sid]

BALLS!

https://www.coreracing.co.uk/images/tireballs/tire_full_balls.jpg
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"Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!"

[c_dug]

Cherry pickers and scissor lifts use foam filled tyres. I would have guessed with bike tyres it would be bad for heat dissipation.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[fatpies]

[Teflon-Mike]

Re-Inventing the wheel.
Ever since John Bull invented the pneumatic tyre, people have been trying to re-invent the solid one!
There have been hundreds of different 'punctureless' tyre designs to my knowledge, appearing on tomorrows world or the automotive trade press, and some getting more or less market viable.

Dunlop developed a 'bullet-proof' tyre during the second world war, especially for the little aircraft they used to drop resistance workers behind the lines; The Mad-Dog-Whatsisname SAS boys that fought behind the german lines in Africa harassing Rommels supply lines aparently had them fitted to thier jeeps. I dont know what the construction technology was, I know the rubber was soft enough that a bullet could go straight through it and it could sort of self 'heal' like cheweing gum after; and that they were low-pressure tyres and I think used internal webs to stuffen them... and I seem to recall that they were evolved into a road tyre for cars in the 1960's, that didn;t prove commercially successful.

I think that the Dunlop bullet-proof tyre may actually have been an impediment to other re-invented wheels, though due to patent issues.

The 'web' designs, like one above seem to have come round at regular intervals, & I recall particularly one that had S shaped webs in carbon-fibre, bonded into the hub-flange so it was both tyre and wheel in one.

Comment about the 'need' for pneumatic tyres being to provide complience in the face of crude suspension systems has been sited very often, in association with re-invented wheels.

However; last twenty years has actually seen suspension systems becoming LESS sophisticated, not more, as product engineering down to a price and 'acceptible' quality and performance levels has taken priority over performance enhancement.

1960's the mini's rubber block 'all round independent' suspension was hailed as innovative, and sophisticated, and shown to endow the little car with better 'handling' than its sports-car rivals.... the copper Minis making something of a mockery of the MG Midget & Sprite sports cars when he stuck the 1275cc engine they used into the Mini! Even the Spitfire, that boasted all round undependent suspension and was applauded for its twin whish-bone front suspension, was humbled by the little Copper S's.

Such sophistication, in the car world, was gradually retro-engineered until the pogo-stick McPhearson strut became the defacto standard suspension solution for almost all cars.

In the bike world; 1950's & 60's any suspension at all was a bit of a novelty, and until the 1970's the hydraulic damped, telescopic front fork, and simple twin hydralic plunger damped rear swing arm was the defacto standard, until via early Motocross, first the long travel cantilever monoshock rear suspension, then the more complex multi-link rising rate system was pioneered.

Those became common on road bikes in the early 1980's, but still paired with the humble telescopic front fork. That got turned upside down in the late 80's early 90's and has switched ands a few times since; but as yet still remains the overall 'best' solution to motorcycle front suspension and the most common.

Back ends meanwhile, have often reverted to plain twin-shock arrangements or during value engineering excersises variants of the crude cantilever mono-shock arrangement.

Or in short.... suspenion technology has NOT come as far as you might presume!

About ten years ago, and I'm Sure G or Kickstart could find some bumph on it; UK student, declared that the modern sportsbikes suspension was 'good enough' to do away with the pneumatic tyre, and re-invented the wheel.... concieving a sort of tank track thing...

It was about a dozen rubberised metal plates, hinged in the middle along the axis of the bike, so that the plates could tilt with the bike and the rubber bit stay flat to the tarmac as the wheel went round..... Was supposed to allow more rubber to be put in contact with the road for better traction, without having to have such a stupidly wide pneumatic donut.......

I seem to recall follow ups said that it 'failed' like so many wonderful bits of British shedlogy, becouse of lack of investment & development.... but there was also comment that I find as or more plausible that it was simply a Dodo from the beginning, and that it didn't offer any great improvement in traction, while being difficult and expensive to make and giving a bludy harsh ride!

Tyre companies have always been demonised and accused of stifling tyre technology innovation, and people have always bemoaned the price of modern sports rubber.....

Yet, they make what the market demands, and over the last twenty years, demand has been for ever softer, lighter carcas sports tyres with ever more performance potential, and less life and robustness.

You roll down the road on a 180 section tyre, with four times the rubber in contact with the road, than an old touring bike with 90 section tyres..... course the chances of you picking up a nail are going to be twice as much! And fact you have demanded a light construction and soft compund tyre so you can go quick round corners, means its that much more likely that that nails going to go through the darn thing!

Its not the tyre makers fault that the market has been demanding these tyres and steering these compromises for however long.... and of course they are going to be happy to flog you new tyres when you get a puncture....

And its a damn site cheaper to make wider lighter pneumatic tyres for a sports-bike than it is completely engineer a solution that doesn't do the job half as well, and solves only a small, if expensive, problem for a few people, pretty infrequently!

And has to be said; modern tyres, for all thier added width, and all thier lighter construction, ARE pretty puncture proof, with thier steel and kevlar belting, compared to tyres of old, that were often made of canvas and contained a bladder tube.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[G]

Also, consider 'run flat' tyres which often come with higher priced cars.
It's generally considered that it actually noticeably detracts from the smoothness of the ride.

Similarly, I believe the 13" wheeled caterhams (bigger tyres) are often considered to be the nicest setup, though not as fast presumably due to more rotating mass and smaller brake disc area.