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Rough Idle - with pics and video

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mumbles
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Rough Idle - with pics and video Reply with quote

Hello again,

I have uploaded a video and pictures this time to help diagnose the problem which is a follows; you see at the start of the video (engine already warmed up) it has a very rough idle with the mixture screws quite far out (rich) and the idle speed screw quite far in. When I rev the bike it hangs at 3000rpm and if I drop the idle speed screw it idles normally but most times just stalls and if i go out for a ride with the idle speed screw that low it will stall at lights, rounder-bouts ect. so just a case of leaning out the mixture right? nope because it idles slower if I make the mixture leaner and stalls more often and it also makes if much harder to rev from idle.

Just to add compression on my bike is low 130psi but it's 130psi on both cylinders so it's irrelevant right? and their is a nose coming from the top end it's not tapping it just sounds like loud moving parts (Im not sure how to describe it better)

https://www.youtube.com/v/4_Rx-zpBQzM


https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/mumbles_8P/GOPR2011.jpg

https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/mumbles_8P/GOPR2012.jpg

https://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s492/mumbles_8P/GOPR2013.jpg[/url][/code]
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Warming the world 2 strokes at a time.

2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)


Last edited by mumbles on 20:39 - 24 Mar 2013; edited 8 times in total
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mumbles
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ollie1995 wrote:
First thing I'd do is buy some new plugs. Shocked
I have a second set and clean both sets with a wire brush they because they look like this after just 5-10 minutes idling
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the choke stuck on, cos those plugs look very sooty so it's running rich.

What bike are we talking about, does it have a cable choke or a plunger direct on the carb?
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mumbles
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:
Is the choke stuck on, cos those plugs look very sooty so it's running rich.

What bike are we talking about, does it have a cable choke or a plunger direct on the carb?


No choke my friend they have been removed, Its a CB250N 1981 inline twin
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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WULFSTAN
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PostPosted: 18:58 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

What condition is the air filter in
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mumbles
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

WULFSTAN wrote:
What condition is the air filter in


Im not sure how to check properly but last time I checked it was slightly damp
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mumbles wrote:
yen_powell wrote:
Is the choke stuck on, cos those plugs look very sooty so it's running rich.

What bike are we talking about, does it have a cable choke or a plunger direct on the carb?


No choke my friend they have been removed, Its a CB250N 1981 inline twin
If you remove the choke on my Africa Twin (which I did many years ago, much better runner since) you have to put the plungers in before blanking them off, otherwise the choke is permanently on. I have known people just blank their chokes off and leave out the plungers as they think it's part of the cable.
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mumbles
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 24 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just realized what you mean by plunger, I don't have that type of choke my choke works on butterfly valves which I have removed completely
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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mumbles
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just occurred to me that I don't have the stock exhaust on this bike I have bolted on 2 125cc pit bike exhausts with I think are being more restrictive, could this cause the problems im having ?
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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radicalrabit
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can I ask why the fk do people mess with their bikes if they dont know what the fk they are doing or what effects its going to have?

is it TINKER management ?
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R1stu
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Joined: 12 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been having the same issues on my cb350. took the tank off yesterday and found the carbs were caked in crap around the choke mech. so when the choke was on, then turned off the lever went down, but the plunger was stuck in the on position.

This caused my bike to idle at 4k.

Cleaned it off with brake cleaner and wd40 and seems OK now.

Maybe something is gunked up sticking it.
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mumbles
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

radicalrabit wrote:
Can I ask why the fk do people mess with their bikes if they dont know what the fk they are doing or what effects its going to have?

is it TINKER management ?

I like to mess with my bikes because it makes them more accustom to me but more importantly every time I pick up a spanner and 'tinker' with stuff I learn something new, most times more than one thing which helps me to be a better mechanic.

R1stu wrote:
Ive been having the same issues on my cb350. took the tank off yesterday and found the carbs were caked in crap around the choke mech. so when the choke was on, then turned off the lever went down, but the plunger was stuck in the on position.

This caused my bike to idle at 4k.

Cleaned it off with brake cleaner and wd40 and seems OK now.

Maybe something is gunked up sticking it.

As I said before I have removed the whole choke system nothing remains apart from blanking plates and my carbs are spotless but thankyou for your help all the same Smile
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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R1stu
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mumbles wrote:

As I said before I have removed the whole choke system nothing remains apart from blanking plates and my carbs are spotless but thankyou for your help all the same Smile


Yes, but did you strip the carbs all the way down a remove everything? something may be sticking even if you removed the mech.
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Current bike 1991 Honda ST1100 Pan European, 1986 Honda cb350sg (Finished)
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paddlesat16
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cb250n or superdream needs a choke for the cold weather, I would suggest you put it back on

This will fix the cold starting. Buy a Haynes manual as this will stop you making stupid errors while owning the bike.

The air screws on the bottom of the carbs need to be set at 2 turns out from fully screwed in, your idle speed should be set at 1300 rpm+/- 100 with the black knob under the carbs.

Once set up the black plugs will disappear and a nice tan brown will magically appear.
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mumbles
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

R1stu wrote:
mumbles wrote:

As I said before I have removed the whole choke system nothing remains apart from blanking plates and my carbs are spotless but thankyou for your help all the same Smile


Yes, but did you strip the carbs all the way down a remove everything? something may be sticking even if you removed the mech.

yeah the whole mechanism is gone including the butterfly valves the idle speed booster the choke shaft everything and nothing is sticking and everything is clean
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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mumbles
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Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

paddlesat16 wrote:
The cb250n or superdream needs a choke for the cold weather, I would suggest you put it back on

This will fix the cold starting. Buy a Haynes manual as this will stop you making stupid errors while owning the bike.

The air screws on the bottom of the carbs need to be set at 2 turns out from fully screwed in, your idle speed should be set at 1300 rpm+/- 100 with the black knob under the carbs.

Once set up the black plugs will disappear and a nice tan brown will magically appear.
I have a Haynes manual first thing i brought haha, the choke was removed because it was broken and I cant afford a new one but cold starting is not to bad I just bump start it takes less than 5 minutes Smile

as for the problem I have removed the exhaust baffles and now have a LOT more flow, I have also set the mixture screw to 2 turns out and the idle to 1400 (I prefer 1400 to 1300 because my generator does not really kick in till then when warming my heated grips) but the idle is still a little rough will video tomorrow but i think it's just an air leak now Smile
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2008 rs50 (SOLD) - 2006 gz125 - (Winter Bike) - 1981 CB250N (In Restoration)
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paddlesat16
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 25 Mar 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balance the carbs first, this should cure the rough idle
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