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ian505050
Traffic Copper



Joined: 27 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
What laws do the police have to abide by when using a speed trap/donut fund device.

I spent the past few weekends driving round the Yorkshire Dales and was driving up to what i thought was a silver camper van but when i got along side it it simply had small black text stating it was a 'Road Safety Van'.

When i looked in my mirror as i passed it i realized it was a speed trap van and luckily i was abiding by all rules of the road.

Later that day i was going through a small village and it was a 30mph zone and when leaving the village there was a national speed limit sign about 500 yards out of the village at which point the road turns back into a 50mph zone.

As i was leaving the village i got the typical slow down signals so i was on high alert.

As i got to the last big barn in the village there was a police officer all in black with a tripod and a gun pointing up the road to the national speed limit sign. The police officer was completely hidden from view and you would only notice him if you knew he was there as he was blocked by the barn. He was simply hidden round a corner and the only way to see him coming from my direction was to look in your rear view mirror.

I thought that speed traps had to be visible or some sort of signage on the road prior to the speed trap but there was none. I also thought that the camera vans had to have some sort of markings but the ones i approached just seemed to be silver with no police colours or speed camera signs?

I once heard that police had issue locations of portable speed trap on a website prior to setting them up, is this true?


Is it just me or do all the speed camera vans seem to be located on long flat straights with no junctions house, schools ect.... and probably the safest place possible to travel faster than the national speed limit?

Why dont they have them in villages near shops or place where speeding is far more likely to cause an accident?

What you think?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paint diagram required.
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J.M.
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
Why dont they have them in villages near shops or place where speeding is far more likely to cause an accident?


What a preposterous idea. They wouldn't catch anywhere near as many people!
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
Is it just me or do all the speed camera vans seem to be located on long flat straights with no junctions house, schools ect.... and probably the safest place possible to travel faster than the national speed limit?

Why dont they have them in villages near shops or place where speeding is far more likely to cause an accident?

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ian505050
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Joined: 27 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Paint diagram required.


TBF i nearly did one and i was thinking about turning round and taking photos when i saw the guy with the gun.
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Drake
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
Ste wrote:
Paint diagram required.


TBF i nearly did one and i was thinking about turning round and taking photos when i saw the guy with the gun.

shoulda rung the police and told them he had a gun.
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:

Why dont they have them in villages near shops or place where speeding is far more likely to cause an accident?

What you think?


Maybe, just maybe there isn't a problem with people speeding there?

At my nick we have a board that has a list of roads that the public have complained about speeding over the last few months.

It would be a waste of my time standing outside on a road were no one speeds, what benefit would there be?

One road we go to you could get someone speeding within minutes, however recently it is taking a lot longer, 20 minutes or so, so the message is getting across slowly (taken a while mind you!).

With regards to hiding. I can wear camo clothing and hide in the bushing, pointing the laser out and pinging people going past, can either NIP them (not really on in my opinion, much rather stop them), or get someone else to stop them.

However, even when I stand at the side of the road, when its completely clear, not hiding behind anything, wearing a high viz jacket and hat, I still get people speeding. So clearly people aren't looking fair enough ahead (which is a whole different subject).

What do I think? Well, the simple answer is, don't want to get caught, don't speed. Its your choice to put your foot down/twist your wrist.

I know not many people will agree with what I've said.
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Benno
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 02 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
JFK wrote:


What do I think? Well, the simple answer is, don't want to get caught, don't speed. Its your choice to put your foot down/twist your wrist.

I know not many people will agree with what I've said.


G-good boy...

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cretin box
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PostPosted: 02:02 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Absolutely none whatsoever.

Break the law, get caught, take your punishment like a man.

Simples.

Next!
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Turkish
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
JFK wrote:
What do I think? Well, the simple answer is, don't want to get caught, don't speed. Its your choice to put your foot down/twist your wrist.

I know not many people will agree with what I've said.


Karma

Ok, but why is there so much attention in areas where it is safe(r) to speed? If it's really about people speding in principle, then set up on a motorway fly-over where nearly 100% of lane three is exceeding the speed limit.

There's some twisties near me with a 1/2 mile gap between the last house and the national speed limit sign (the rest is fields with no entrances). It's a straight road. I cannot see the danger in increasing speed well before the sign in this instance.

The intention of catching people speeding irrespective of the location is not in the spirit of road safety, which is what these vans are allegedly about. But we all know they're not, really Wink
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doggone
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
i was thinking about turning round and taking photos when i saw the guy with the gun.


This sounds a good idea, there should be a special thread.
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LordShaftesbu...
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
Turkish wrote:
JFK wrote:
What do I think? Well, the simple answer is, don't want to get caught, don't speed. Its your choice to put your foot down/twist your wrist.

I know not many people will agree with what I've said.


Karma

Ok, but why is there so much attention in areas where it is safe(r) to speed? If it's really about people speding in principle, then set up on a motorway fly-over where nearly 100% of lane three is exceeding the speed limit.

There's some twisties near me with a 1/2 mile gap between the last house and the national speed limit sign (the rest is fields with no entrances). It's a straight road. I cannot see the danger in increasing speed well before the sign in this instance.

The intention of catching people speeding irrespective of the location is not in the spirit of road safety, which is what these vans are allegedly about. But we all know they're not, really Wink

JFK explained it - Mumsnet members complain when they get overtaken by nasty men on bikes and the police have to respond.

Quite why the police feel they have to respond when they don't bother with many real crime complaints is the mystery ...
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binge
Emo Kiddy



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 08:14 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Real police can only set up a speed trap on roads sign posted with camera signs.

Traffic cops may do as they wish. Even hide in wheelie bins.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
ian505050 wrote:
What laws do the police have to abide by when using a speed trap/donut fund device.

The normal road traffic laws that the rest of us have to abide by (only not really). There are no statute laws restricting how they can levy speed tax.

ian505050 wrote:
I thought that speed traps had to be visible or some sort of signage on the road prior to the speed trap but there was none. I also thought that the camera vans had to have some sort of markings but the ones i approached just seemed to be silver with no police colours or speed camera signs?

OK, and I swear I'll only put the tip in.

ian505050 wrote:
Is it just me or do all the speed camera vans seem to be located on long flat straights with no junctions house, schools ect.... and probably the safest place possible to travel faster than the national speed limit?

Why dont they have them in villages near shops or place where speeding is far more likely to cause an accident?


Well, you asked for it, so here it is again.

Attention is not directed to that which I think your Lordships all agree is of importance—the safety of the public. Policemen are not stationed in the villages where there are people about who might be in danger, but are hidden in hedges or ditches by the side of the most open roads in the country. Motorists may drive through villages in any way they like.

[...]

I am entirely in sympathy with what the noble Earl said with regard to police traps. In my opinion they are manifestly absurd as a protection to the public, and they are used in many counties merely as a means of extracting money from the passing traveller in a way which reminds one of the highwaymen of the Middle Ages.

House of Lords debate, 16 July 1907.

Plus ça change.
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pork6156
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: vilages Reply with quote
I am a police officer, and I must admit I see some speed camera vans in locations that I think can only be cash generators. Yes there are a lot on roads that have no houses, schools, etc etc etc, and I am with the majority and think they are for one reason only.

We all generally know which roads are dangerous and which ones have high accident rates, so yes this is where the cameras should be.

I DO target small villages, especially ones with narrow footpaths and schools. I thoroughly enjoy upsetting 'mum run' time. I like to stop mum's parking in dangerous locations that reduce visibility for other road users. I like issuing tickets to parents who have not secured their own children in properly. I also like giving out tickets for mobile phone use, people think they can get away with that in villages as they don't expect police to be there.
And yes I also give out speeding tickets, the speed some people drive through villages when kids are out walking is disgusting.
I have actually never issued one to a biker in a village, the bikers generally respect the limits in villages.
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-LG-
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Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
LordShaftesbury wrote:

JFK explained it - Mumsnet members complain when they get overtaken by nasty men on bikes and the police have to respond.

Quite why the police feel they have to respond when they don't bother with many real crime complaints is the mystery ...


To be fair, its not bikers that people are complaining about (although that may change during the next couple of months).

I can't speak for everyone, but I know the officers that I work with will only do speed checks if its quiet, and they don't have anything to do. As soon as a job comes in, we'll attend.
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poisondwarf
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Joined: 02 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
Turkish wrote:
JFK wrote:
What do I think? Well, the simple answer is, don't want to get caught, don't speed. Its your choice to put your foot down/twist your wrist.

I know not many people will agree with what I've said.


Karma

Ok, but why is there so much attention in areas where it is safe(r) to speed? If it's really about people speding in principle, then set up on a motorway fly-over where nearly 100% of lane three is exceeding the speed limit.

There's some twisties near me with a 1/2 mile gap between the last house and the national speed limit sign (the rest is fields with no entrances). It's a straight road. I cannot see the danger in increasing speed well before the sign in this instance.

The intention of catching people speeding irrespective of the location is not in the spirit of road safety, which is what these vans are allegedly about. But we all know they're not, really Wink

so how does this apply when the police them selfs are the law breakers?
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
still waiting to see if mine comes through

overtook a parked van and a transit coming the other way flashed me

looked in the mirror and the bloke was pointing the camera at me from behind a row of conifers

he also hides in our road so you cant see him untill you are on top of him

my mates taken to parking his van on the corner of the road in front of him so he has to move
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: vilages Reply with quote
pork6156 wrote:
I am a police offic...


I respect your honesty, I would ask what your view is on your plethora of colleagues who don't share your mindset?
They give a bad name to the the ones like you who rightfully take pleasure in doing the ones that need to be done.
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Slacker24seve...
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
andyscooter wrote:
still waiting to see if mine comes through

overtook a parked van and a transit coming the other way flashed me

looked in the mirror and the bloke was pointing the camera at me from behind a row of conifers

he also hides in our road so you cant see him untill you are on top of him

my mates taken to parking his van on the corner of the road in front of him so he has to move


Wheres that Andy?
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-LG-
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Re: What laws do the police have to abide by when...... Reply with quote
Vincent wrote:
JFK wrote:


At my nick we have a board that has a list of roads that the public have complained about speeding over the last few months.



Shocked Is that how you decide to set a trap up? Where some "knobhead" has complained? Shocked


It would be more than one person. But to a degree yes. It's also on roads that have a high number of killed or seriously injuried RTCs.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 03 Jun 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Slacker24seven wrote:
andyscooter wrote:
still waiting to see if mine comes through

overtook a parked van and a transit coming the other way flashed me

looked in the mirror and the bloke was pointing the camera at me from behind a row of conifers

he also hides in our road so you cant see him untill you are on top of him

my mates taken to parking his van on the corner of the road in front of him so he has to move


Wheres that Andy?


stoke prior bromsgrove
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