*Cage Alert!* Car tax and continuous insurance

[ijmok]

Hi,

Forgive me but i need a little advice on what i can get away with

Miss IJMOK has just bought a new car, we pick it up on thursday,

As such her insurance moves over on the thursday leaving her old unsold car uninsured from friday

Tax on the old car runs out in August so im loathed to SORN the car especially as it needs to be sold,

I can keep the car off the road, in the mean time but is there any grace period (a week or so?) does the enforcement letter give 14 days to fix it or is it an instant £100 fine?

Someone is lined up to see the car monday so it shouldn't be long it just seems to screw everyone over if i have to send it back instantly,

I've half considered obtaining "proof of postage" but i don't know if that would help or not

Rob

[charlie74]

not quite sure what your meaning?

what is it your trying to avoid happening?

if the car insurance it transfered to the new car, all you need to do is declare it sorn

you dont need to send in the tax disc, and it remains valid

all the buyer needs to do to cancel the sorn is insure it, no "paperwork" to do

there is no "grace" period, its an automated system, if the car isnt on the insurance database, the system picks it up and you get a letter... however it appears to be a bit random and you may not get a letter for a while.
there isnt any gray areas, your either caught or your not.

hope that answers your query, if not i didnt understand what you wanted, sorry

[yambabe]

[P.]

Once you SORn the tax stays on the car, all you need to do when selling is call the DVLA to remove the SORN and get the other person to insure it. That means the tax that was present will still cover you.

Fuck knows how it works, but it appears to be the case.

[Rogerborg]

[J.M.]

You usually get a few weeks grace period where you're technically committing an offence, but they do nothing about it. Although it's up to you if you want to risk grabbing yourself a fine just to make the new buyer's life a little easier.

[Rogerborg]

[P.]

[ijmok]

Thanks for the advice,

I suspect ill leave it over the weekend, seeing its being looked at Monday, then either it will be sold and not my problem or i will notify them but not return tax,

Many thanks, got its a flipping minefield out there, Cvnts and there money making schemes.

[Rogerborg]

If you're really bothered, Proof of Posting is free, the cost is a stamp and an envelope. Contents optional.
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[ijmok]

That was my original thought, figured a second class stamp was cheaper (just!) than £100 fine

[cretin box]

If you're not using the car and you've got an off-road parking space, just SORN it. It's no big deal.

I've bought a couple of cars in this condition (including my current one) and it's never been an issue.

I'd seen the car and its paper history so I knew I wanted to buy it, and the owner's story checked out (new car in use and the old one SORN'd, sitting on the drive and waiting to be sold). I arranged insurance and got the train to the seller's town, he picked me up from the station with all the paperwork on board, signed the car over to me, took me to the local Post Office where I bought a tax disc with cash using the MoT, my insurance certificate and the "new owner" slip from the V5C. He then drove me back to his home where I paid for the car in cash and drove it home from there.

It's worth your while to be a bit helpful to your buyer and offer him a lift to the Post Office - depending where you live it's probably only 20 minutes out of your day to stay legal and get a happy cash buyer. Not that arduous, no?

[yambabe]

Being a bit of an anorak and having a slow day at work, I rang the DVLA.

After an awful lot of to-ing and fro-ing they decided that what I said above is correct, that in their opinion a declaration of SORN does indeed invalidate a tax disc even if that disc is not returned for a refund and that a new owner would be driving without valid tax if he subsequently insured the car and didn't tax it again himself.

So I asked for a pointer to the legislation which says this, and they couldn't give me one. I might email my MP...........
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[P.]

[ijmok]

[stinkwheel]

I suppose this is one situation where being in posession of a valid, in-date tax disc is important.

I can just see how it would look in court if someone was charged with keeping an untaxed vehicle, pleads not guilty and whips out exhibit A for the defence, a valid, in-date tax disc.

Given the amount of fuss the DVLA have historically made about the necessity of posessing the disc itself, and their refusal to refund tax without sticking the actual disc to a form and sending it back it think it would be pretty easy to show posession of disc = taxed.

Anyone know where it is an offence to drive a vehicle which is subject to a current SORN declaration? I've looked and can't find anything. Obviously there are regulations which make it illegal to drive while not taxed and not insured but I can't find anything making it in some way specifically illegal to drive while a SORN declaration has been made.

They make a big thing about there being a potential for a fine of £5000 or 2 years in jail for making a false SORN declaration but I'm damned if I can find where this comes from. Unless they're talking Perjury Act 1911?
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[MarkJ]

I have nothing to add, other than the continuous insurance act is bullshit and a right pain in the arse.

OP, I feel your pain.

[J.M.]

I did just find this: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/regulation/5/made

[ficedula]

Eh, all of that looks like it's saying you can surrender a tax disc, and if you do, here's the procedure, and you'd better make a SORN declaration. I can't see that the links say you're obliged to surrender it, just that you can?
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[J.M.]

[ficedula]

Not sure that changes it either - it's saying the regulations affect you if you do surrender a tax disc, not that you're obliged to. I suppose it could be argued that because you don't fall into any of those categories if you're declaring it off-road without handing the tax back in, your SORN isn't necessarily valid - but it doesn't say that, and if the DVLA chooses to accept your SORN declaration, then it is SORNed regardless of whether they had to accept it or not.

In fact, the wording:

[J.M.]

You're reading it differently to me.

In my previous post, it lists the 3 possible pre-requisites for making a SORN. That's written in legislation, so you can't say "my option isn't listed". If you're making a SORN, it must be one of those 3.

The statement you have highlighted, I don't see how that's explicitly catering for it without surrendering the tax-disk? I can't see anything mentioning SORN whilst a license is in force. Only the ability to do it whilst cancelling the license. That statement isn't a conditional and surely just relates to 3(a) in my previous post?
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[stinkwheel]

[J.M.]

Ah, I see! So in regards of the RTA 144A, all you have to do to be exempt is simply declare to them that the vehicle isn't being used on the road. I don't see anywhere in the RTA 144B stating that a SORN must be used to do this, simply that it must be done?

In which case it would be entirely possible to be exempt from 144A without actually making a SORN and cancelling your tax?
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Rogerborg]