Armour + Armoured gear

[ltiro]

Hi all,

Ok ok, I know some of you might feel about this, but I am looking to start wearing armour underneath armored bike gear.

The problem is getting it to all fit. Anyone out there do anything similar ?

Any advice.

[Eddie Hitler]

Nobody is doing that. So you won't get any helpful response.

In other words, don't. It will likely cause more injuries than it will prevent.

[SQL]

If you are going to do it wear it on the outside and wear an MX helmet

I would only imagine it being bloody uncomfortable and likely to cause impact fractures on you if crashed.

[-Matt-]

Why do you want armour if you already have it Or are you talking about a back/chest armour under a jacket with only armour in the arms for example?

[ltiro]

Ok for example, if the trousers had knee armour, I would still like to wear something like this underneath

https://www.ghostbikes.com/products/On-Road-Gear-Motorcycle-Armour/8027-thor-sector-motocross-knee-guards.html

Cause impact fractures? and increase the chance of injury? Really?

[G]

Do you understand the purpose of armour and how it works?

I would be very careful about what goes where.

If you really want thicker armour, why not just double up with some more foam (or a cheese and cabbage sandwich, which will pass the CE tests and be a tasty snack - at least if you ditch the cabbage first!)

[STONEY!]

Body armour that is tight fitting is much better than the type fitted in a jacket/trousers as its less likely to move in the event of a crash.

You want decent shock absorbent armour either using a plastic or polystyrene honeycombe like knox or a rubberised armour like forcefield.

Or even some custard armour which is still pretty new on the market, its sort of like a plastic bag filled with custard that goes hard-ish when impacted.

The hard plastic/carbon armour is ok for little knocks and bangs but unless your off roading its really just for show.


I personally believe abrasion resistance is a bigger factor in road riding so look into jackets with kevlar or a kevlar derived outer layer. or just wear leathers!

There is no benefit to wearing 2 sets of armour that I can see, at best it will be uncomfortable, at worst it will restrict your movement.

[STONEY!]

the knee guards shown are for off road knocks and bangs, they wont help much on the road.

[-Matt-]

Why arent you happy with the armour already in the trousers? Could you not upgrade it (i'll avoid a debate on ce levels again )

[G]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if those cheap off road knee pads course injuries.

Half decent off road knee stuff starts at about £60 or so if you get it cheap I believe - and is pretty chunky.

They are made to be stiff, so when you land on a pointy rock it doesn't split your leg up.
However, that means that the force can also be pushed through to one edge. As it's a pretty rigid section, this can mean more force concentrated in a small area.

I'm pretty sure this is what fractured my shoulder.
However, the deep gouge out of it suggests it probably saved my shoulder from being splattered in to a good many bits by a sharp rock.

Best bet would be to look to some advanced techniques and learn not to crash in the first place - a much better way to avoid injury, rather than a 'sticking plaster' of trying to reduce it after you've lost control of the situation!

[ltiro]

The knee area was just one example,

here my understanding of what gear protection is there to do:

protect the rider from

(1) Wear/abrasion occurances
(2) Impact

My feeling was that the more armour you have the better you are protected in these two areas.

For example those knee pads have a foam backing as well as plastic shell (protection of (1) and (2) above, they also are tightly strapped around your leg so less risk of moving around when they are need.

I am just trying to get as much protection as I can. I am a new rider.

[-Matt-]

The foam is probably more for fitting and comfort than anything else i would of thought if behind the armour, see plenty with no foam. Id just ask yourself why dont you see 'top of thd range' gear with multiple layers upon layers of armour someone must of decided its not a wise idea somewhere along the line.

Personally - i wear leathers with ce approved armour in knees elbows and shoulders. Back protector (seperate) and then armoured boots and gloves.

[STONEY!]

I am pretty safety conscious with regards to riding and have worked in the motorcycle clothing industry for 5 years or so.

Here's some pearls of wisdom from my time in the industry

C.E approval means it won't hurt you it doesn't mean it will protect you.

Helmets

Helmets differ a lot, buy one that fits well, it should be tight but not putting pressure on your temples/cheeks/forehead etc, personally I would only wear Arai or Shoei maybe Nolan/xlite.

Jackets/trousers

should be snug but not restrictive, outer layer should be double stitched at a minimum and made of a decent abrasion resistant materiel, kevlar, leather etc etc

if fitted with armour make sure it sits where its supposed too and cant be moved easily.

Gloves

Gloves are bloody important, again should be tight but not restrictive, personally I think the armour on them is pretty pointless apart from maybe the ones with the big wrist protectors. I especially dislike the armoured knuckles, generally I think extra padding on the palms is more important.

If you fall over/crash its a natural reaction to stick your hands out palms forward to stop yourself hitting the deck.


Boots

Im a bit sceptical of armour on boots with the exception of ankle supports. Again they should fit snugly but not be restictive.

[G]

That type of off road knee pads do tend to move around a bit.
You get some that don't so much, but they restrict your movement. Ideal for the injuries associated with dirt biking, less ideal for road riding.

As far as impact protection goes; armour can displace force across time and space. It can not remove it.

Imagine you have a bread stick.

You knock the bread stick against the edge of the table.
Do it lightly and it won't break at all.
Do it hard and it will break.

You put a paper napkin around your breadstick on the expected impact point and hit the table just harder than was needed to break it before.

Now it doesn't break because the impact is spread across a bigger space and instead of being an instant 'hit', it's taken a little longer for the force to be transferred, so there's less force per micro second.

Now, you hit the bread stick with napkin harder.
It breaks anyway because even though the napkin has spread the force, there's more than the bread stick canhandle.

You get another napkin'd bread stick and this time hit it lighter, but continue pushing down for a bit longer.
Again, it breaks; this time while there was less force, as it was sustained for longer, there was still enough to overcome the bread-stick.

Yes, your leg/arm is the bread stick.
Armour only protects against a fairly narrow range of impacts.
It may help reduce bruising a little in minor impacts; but I'm presuming you're not a girl (they're not usually quite this silly, or not silly in the same manner anyway ), so that's not an issue .

Armour does not protect against abrasion - at least that's not it's intention. Good quality leather does that.
By adding extra armour underneath existing stuff, you're also likely to get the outer layer moving around, which can lead to bunching up and wearing through quicker.

Some good points from Stoney - I've put loads of holes in the palms of gloves. Barely touched the armoured bits. Crashes road and track.

[STONEY!]

you want your gear to be reasonably tight fitting so A) it doesn't come off and B) it doesn't bunch up or pinch in the event of a crash.

I think the best option is an abrasion/weather resistant outer layer with seperate body armour underneath.

forcefield, dainese and knox all do full armour suits designed to go under your gear.

[chris-red]

What OP wants.

https://www.grace-collection.com/images/AR008_White_Knight_Armor.JPG
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[STONEY!]

Heh I like your bread stick analogy G

[ltiro]

Thanks G for the awesome post,

STONEY, do you mean something like this?
https://www.forcefieldbodyarmour.com/product/pro-pants/2406

[STONEY!]

Yeah man, that kinda thing, I have a forcefield armour top and dainese bottoms but only got the dainese cos it was rediculously cheap on sale, personally think the forcefield is better kit.

[ltiro]

Ok, so you wear this under your leathers then?

Thanks this is the sort of thing I am after.

[STONEY!]

I wear the top and bottoms under leathers with the armour removed if I am going for a bit of a mad one or under my textiles for green laning.

If Im just cruising about I were a seperate back protector and a jacket/trousers with built in armour.