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| Alpha-9 |
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 Alpha-9 Super Spammer

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| anthony_r6 |
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 anthony_r6 World Chat Champion

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| LockyUK |
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 LockyUK Brolly Dolly
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| Timmeh |
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 Timmeh World Chat Champion

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| P.addy |
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 P.addy Red Rocket
Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :  
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 Posted: 12:58 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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Depends on policy wording.
What you want is a number plate of a legit bike..  |
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| thepuma |
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 thepuma World Chat Champion

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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
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| thepuma |
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 thepuma World Chat Champion

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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
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 Posted: 13:34 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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Oh that might raise a problem there then  |
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| P.addy |
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 P.addy Red Rocket
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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Karma :     
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 Posted: 13:45 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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Not sure on this so i may be wrong, but wouldn't the fact its un-insured mean its SORN'd and therefore un-taxed/un-rideable, to be all official n shit  |
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| P.addy |
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 P.addy Red Rocket
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| Alpha-9 |
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 Alpha-9 Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:24 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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No driving license
Housemate has a small work van, could likely fit it in if I take it apart somewhat, ballache though
Didn't realise that about the riding other bikes thing, don't really get why that's the case but ok  ____________________ Fzr-600 1999 |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 14:30 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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| thepuma wrote: | For someone to ride your bike on their 'riding other bikes' clause, the bike in question MUST be insured in its own right by the owner. |
Oh, you've read every certificate of insurance and policy in the country, have you?
Pryor vs the Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police says otherwise, so you'll need to take it up with the Court of Appeal if you know better.
Anyway, we're jumping to the conclusion that it's not insured. Surely Alpha isn't derp enough to have taken the insurance off but not SORNed it... surely?  ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| LockyUK |
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 LockyUK Brolly Dolly
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| P.addy |
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 P.addy Red Rocket
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 14:47 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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WALL OF TEXT
I'd always encourage people to read their certificate of insurance and policy document carefully.
The certificate and policy mean what they say, and only what they say, no matter how hard you or Dibble - or even your own insurer, again, see Pryor - believe or assert otherwise.
I'm currently insured with Hastings Direct. Here's the their motorcycle policy document.
I'll cut to the chase:
| The Policy Document wrote: | Where cover is provided by the effective Certificate of Insurance, your Insurer will indemnify you while personally riding, with the permission of the owner, any motorcycle not owned by you or hired to you under a hire purchase agreement or leased to you under a leasing agreement or provided to you as a courtesy motorcycle and not owned or hired or lent to you by your employer or partner. |
That's it. There is no requirement for the other bike to be insured, and neither is that mentioned on the certificate of insurance.
So I can indeed jump on an uninsured Hayabusa and ride it perfectly legally, although I'd be gagging for a tug, and the issue of whether it's insured once I get off of it is problematic.
There's also the issue that if it's not itself covered by a policy then its keeper is committing an offence by not SORNing it (*cough* Alpha *cough*), but that would be his problem, not mine.
There's no offence of riding a SORNed vehicle on the road. There's an offence of riding without a "vehicle license" but the physical "tax" disc itself is the license. If it's still on the bike, I'm good to ride it.
However, note the sneaky clause about "employer or partner", which I'd not actually noticed, and which isn't mentioned on my Certificate. This is why you should read your policy before making any assumptions. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| J4mes |
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 J4mes World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Mar 2011 Karma :  
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 Posted: 15:12 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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I've NEVER had a requirement for the vehicle to be insured by it's owner/registered keeper on any of the policies that I have had the "drive other vehicles" allowance on.
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| CaNsA |
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 CaNsA Super Spammer

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| Joncrete Cungle |
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 Joncrete Cungle World Chat Champion
Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:11 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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Thinking out loud for a moment..........
Say the insurance on my brothers Ninja runs out but it is still taxed for 6 months. He 'permits' me to 'borrow' his bike and I ride it with TPO cover via my own Hastings direct policy on my RVF word for word the same as Borg has quoted.
Fast forard a couple of months and the invitation to pay the CIE bribe lands on my brothers doormat. But the bike is 'insured' TPO by way of my Hastings policy while I 'borrow' it, but the stupid MIB database and DVLA database don't know this and sends out the template invitation to pay a bribe.
Do you think the above would stand up in court should he refuse to pay the CIE bribe and the DVLA take it that far? The insurance cover would meet the minimum third party requirement stipulated in the Road Traffic Act, so the bike would be 'insured' to meet the legal requirement as a simpleton such as I understands it and I can legally ride it on the road. But the ever expanding database the filth, insurance parasites and Black Hole of Swansea put ever more faith in would have no way of knowing?
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| thepuma |
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 thepuma World Chat Champion

Joined: 16 Jul 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:18 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | WALL OF TEXT
I'd always encourage people to read their certificate of insurance and policy document carefully.
The certificate and policy mean what they say, and only what they say, no matter how hard you or Dibble - or even your own insurer, again, see Pryor - believe or assert otherwise.
I'm currently insured with Hastings Direct. Here's the their motorcycle policy document.
I'll cut to the chase:
| The Policy Document wrote: | Where cover is provided by the effective Certificate of Insurance, your Insurer will indemnify you while personally riding, with the permission of the owner, any motorcycle not owned by you or hired to you under a hire purchase agreement or leased to you under a leasing agreement or provided to you as a courtesy motorcycle and not owned or hired or lent to you by your employer or partner. |
That's it. There is no requirement for the other bike to be insured, and neither is that mentioned on the certificate of insurance.
So I can indeed jump on an uninsured Hayabusa and ride it perfectly legally, although I'd be gagging for a tug, and the issue of whether it's insured once I get off of it is problematic.
There's also the issue that if it's not itself covered by a policy then its keeper is committing an offence by not SORNing it (*cough* Alpha *cough*), but that would be his problem, not mine.
There's no offence of riding a SORNed vehicle on the road. There's an offence of riding without a "vehicle license" but the physical "tax" disc itself is the license. If it's still on the bike, I'm good to ride it.
However, note the sneaky clause about "employer or partner", which I'd not actually noticed, and which isn't mentioned on my Certificate. This is why you should read your policy before making any assumptions. |
Well....I worked in motor insurance for 15 years in my younger days, so youre right...I havent a clue what im talking about. I was young then and regularly pissed so my memory isnt the greatest.
The reason why the other vehicle has to be insured is this....when youve borrowed this bike/car and then go and kill 4 kids..12 kittens and dent some poor old boys ferrari when you love control of this borrower vehicle. ..whos insurance will the Ferrari, kids and kittens be claiming off if the vehicle is not insured?
If the vehicle didnt need to be insured then you would have all and sundry insuring a 700cc citroen c1 cheaply but actually driving around in sports cars on their 'driving other vehicles' policy extention.
Maybe things have changed recently though? I havent worked in insurance for 10 years or so. ____________________ YBR125 (SOLD) - CBR250R(SOLD) - CBR650F(SOLD) Current - Street Triple
765 RS |
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| Alpha-9 |
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 Alpha-9 Super Spammer

Joined: 19 Jan 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:29 - 06 Sep 2013 Post subject: |
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Probably depends on the insurer, not like there's actual legislation about if so there'd be a source
Is SORN'd
Problem is probably as Rogerborg says, if it's SORN'd you can't ride it on 'other bikes' policy as it's declared off the road, otherwise it would have to be insured anyway.
Interesting thing though, don't know what would happen if you were actually pulled driving a SORN'd vehicle on 'other bikes' policy ____________________ Fzr-600 1999 |
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| J4mes |
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 J4mes World Chat Champion
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| G |
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 G The Voice of Reason
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| thepuma |
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 thepuma World Chat Champion

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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 299 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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