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Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now.

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prawny1
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now. Reply with quote

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b1_licenses#incoming-363496

According to this:

From 19 January 2013 only drivers with a disability are able to take a driving test in a three-wheeled vehicle. Driving tests for three-wheeled vehicles will not be available for able bodied drivers.

So a disabled can take a test in either a bike or a trike but an able bodied person can only take their test on a bike (or other vehicle not declared a trike under category a/a1).

Is this not discrimination against the able bodied, and declaring all three wheeled vehicles only suitable for disabled's.
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Last edited by prawny1 on 00:20 - 07 Nov 2013; edited 2 times in total
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reed
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Very Happy
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The other Paul Rudd
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Re: Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now. Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:

Is this not discrimination against the able bodied, and declaring all three wheeled vehicles only suitable for disabled's.


I understood it as you can no longer operate a trike or quad, as an able bodied person, with a car licence, you must hold a motorcycle licence. If you cannot pass a motorcycle test, because you're disabled, then you can use a 3 wheeled vehicle. You can still pass a motorcycle test and ride a trike.

It's the same conclusion you came to and I'm confused how you think this is discriminatory.
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reed
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Re: Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now. Reply with quote

The other Paul Rudd wrote:
prawny1 wrote:

Is this not discrimination against the able bodied, and declaring all three wheeled vehicles only suitable for disabled's.


I understood it as you can no longer operate a trike or quad, as an able bodied person, with a car licence, you must hold a motorcycle licence. If you cannot pass a motorcycle test, because you're disabled, then you can use a 3 wheeled vehicle. You can still pass a motorcycle test and ride a trike.


I thought that car licences, if renewed would come back with an added category A (limited to trikes.)

I got enough confusion related to trike use and the use of Reliant Robins when all this changed in January, all I know and care is that I can drive one now. Smile
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The other Paul Rudd
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Re: Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now. Reply with quote

Reed wrote:
I thought that car licences, if renewed would come back with an added category A (limited to trikes.)


Well everything in that link is dated Jan this year, so whatever the outcome was for Reliant owners back then is probably still accurate. It's a little late for someone to be outraged by it.

So if I didn't have category A, but held category B, I can drive a Reliant with category B but not a motorcycle based trike. Right?
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reed
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Re: Only disabled's can take their test on a trike now. Reply with quote

The other Paul Rudd wrote:
Reed wrote:
I thought that car licences, if renewed would come back with an added category A (limited to trikes.)


Well everything in that link is dated Jan this year, so whatever the outcome was for Reliant owners back then is probably still accurate. It's a little late for someone to be outraged by it.

So if I didn't have category A, but held category B, I can drive a Reliant with category B but not a motorcycle based trike. Right?


I believe if you held the car licence before January 2013 you are entitled to drive any trike inc. bike based trikes, as the entitlement was already there before hand, similar to those who passed there car test prior to 2000 or whatever it was, can ride a 50cc without a CBT, it's known as 'grandfather rights'
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it worth amputating for?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariel Badger wrote:
Is it worth amputating for?


Yes.

The OP's little head.

Discrimination??

FFS.

Rolling Eyes
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 06 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if someone able bodied only wanted to ride a trike but had not passed the car test before jan 2013 and did not want to take the test on a bike they would have to be declared disabled in order to take the test.


Able bodied people applying for a first driving licence would be excluded from driving trikes in anything other than a provisional manner unless they pass a bike test, but disabled people are not excluded that is discrimination.

No outrage was meant in my original post and I am not even sure if able bodied or disabled people could even take a standalone test for a trike before January 2013 anyway.

If dvla had stated only women, gays, black, whites, gingers or whatever could take a test on a trike would that be equally as laughable?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
If dvla had stated only women, gays, black, whites, gingers or whatever could take a test on a trike would that be equally as laughable?


It OK, if you stand by this statement, you clearly have an intellectual disability and therefore can take a trike test....
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOTFIAG=0
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kestrel
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:

Able bodied people applying for a first driving licence would be excluded from driving trikes in anything other than a provisional manner unless they pass a bike test, but disabled people are not excluded that is discrimination.



Only disabled people can use disabled parking spaces, would you also call that discrimination?
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes positive discrimination.

How is it justified that a person without disability cannot ride a trike for the test but a disabled person can? is the disabled person more capable? is the non disable person somehow less able to operate a trike to test standard thanks to their lack or disability?

Can anyone tell me, Given that the disabled person is being allowed to take the motorcycle test on a trike are they limited to only operating a trike or are they granted a full category a licence?

I have seen plenty of people that cannot get to grips with a bike that ride a trike,

to the other paul rudd, from what I can tell only trikes have been moved back to the bike licence quads are still covered by b/ b1.

after re reading the link I saw this parts.

These changes mean that any current provisional entitlement for three-wheel vehicles within category B1 will no longer be valid after 19 January 2013 for the non-disabled and to continue to drive these vehicles the drivers will have to pass Compulsory Basic Training and theory and practical tests on a two wheeled motorcycle. They must also meet the new minimum age requirements for motorcycles.

So It would seem that an able bodied person cannot ride a trike at all not even in a provisional capacity even if they could under the b/b1 provisional, they must take a cbt and pass a full bike test to ride a trike at all.

Those that could legally ride a trike under the car/ b1 provisional now can no longer do so either, so no "grandfather rules" apply,

whether the entitlement will also no longer be valid for those driving trikes on a full car/b licence is unclear from the link. Reeds post above suggests that it is not the case and those with a full licence also have a (trike limited) cat A entitlement so they are not losing out.

Would the disabled also need to complete a cbt etc? If so have fun trying to find a 50 or 125cc trike Laughing

I know people that only ride trikes as they feel they would be unsafe on a bike, they would now be forced to take a bike test to ride a vehicle that they pre jan 2013 would have been legally allowed to drive.

I bet there are some people riding round now that are unaware of these change that are actually now driving not in accordance with a license, Are reliant robins classed at trikes? If they are I wonder how many reliant robin drivers out there know they now have to take a motorcycle test? Which they must do one a bike unless they are disabled.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was somebody on here that tried to take their test on a trike, and were told they had to pass on a bike instead even though they struggled with balance.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:22 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
yes positive discrimination.

Being "able bodied" is not a "protected characteristic" under the Equality Act 2010.

I do get your point though. They're saying that trikes are just bikes for spackers. That's ridiculous, when most trikes (the new narrow wheelbase leany ones excepted) are more like a car that's missing a wheel.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
prawny1 wrote:
yes positive discrimination.

Being "able bodied" is not a "protected characteristic" under the Equality Act 2010.

I do get your point though. They're saying that trikes are just bikes for spackers. That's ridiculous, when most trikes (the new narrow wheelbase leany ones excepted) are more like a car that's missing a wheel.


I agree with this post Thumbs Up
I think Trikes are for disabled people too.

Quite a substandard amount ambiguitanierousnessism in this bottle of worimz.

When is a three wheeled vehicle a 'trike'?
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dydey90 wrote:
There was somebody on here that tried to take their test on a trike, and were told they had to pass on a bike instead even though they struggled with balance.


If that is correct them my point is proven, able bodied people that rode trikes on a provisional licence pre 2013 or those wishing to ride trikes on post 2013 licenses are being excluded from doing so unless they take a full bike test that they may be just as incapable of passing than a disabled for example if they have issues with balance.

Would you tell a child they are not allowed to ride a tricycle unless they learn how to ride a bike first? (unless the child was a disabled of course)

Would you take a trike from a child and tell them they cannot have it back until they learn to ride a bicycle? (equivalent to removing the provisional entitlement for trikes that able bodied and disabled catagory b/ b1 provisional holders had)

If taking the test on a trike limits the rider to only using as trike what is the problem with able bodied people doing so if they wish to only ride a trike?

If it is the case that the disabled rider can take the full bike test on a trike and gain the right to use all the vehicles encompassed by that license,
Can a disabled person that is proven not up to test standard on a bike pass the test on a trike and then ride a bike anyway?

If they can what is wrong with those not classed as disabled doing the same?

Also does the change back to category A mean that all full bike license holders can now ride trikes again as well as all those that passed their car test pre 2013?


I also find it daft that an "equality" act does NOT apply to everyone? surely it is a contradiction.
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map
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
...When is a three wheeled vehicle a 'trike'?

When the distance between the wheels where they contact the ground is 460mm* or greater.


* taken from here and here
UK Government wrote:
...“motor bicycle” means a two-wheeled motor cycle, whether or not having a side-car attached, and for the purposes of this definition where the distance measured between the centre of the area of contact with the road surface of any two wheels of a motor cycle is less than 460 millimetres, those wheels shall be counted as one wheel;
So if distance >=460mm then counts as two wheels so if on same axle it's a trike.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
Walloper wrote:
...When is a three wheeled vehicle a 'trike'?

When the distance between the wheels where they contact the ground is 460mm* or greater.


* taken from here and here
UK Government wrote:
...“motor bicycle” means a two-wheeled motor cycle, whether or not having a side-car attached, and for the purposes of this definition where the distance measured between the centre of the area of contact with the road surface of any two wheels of a motor cycle is less than 460 millimetres, those wheels shall be counted as one wheel;
So if distance >=460mm then counts as two wheels so if on same axle it's a trike.


So my bike with the big bit of tread missing from the centre of the tyres could be considered a trike?

Very Happy
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:

When is a three wheeled vehicle a 'trike'?


Side car outfits are considered solo motorcycles so do not come into it, as mentioned a trike is a three wheeled vehicle with a 460mm+ wheel base on an axle with two wheels on it anything narrower is considered to be one wheel.

You also have reverse trikes like the morgan three wheelers,

If I was deathly afraid of motorcycles and could not bring myself to take the test on one, as an able bodied person I would NEVER be able to legally drive a morgan three wheeler or any other trike.


It is/ was common for those piaggio leany scooter to have axle spacers fitted so that car drivers could use them as trikes and to aid stability, With no power or cc restrictions imposed as is the case with a car license provisional or not.

but now if you wanted to use one for training/ testing purposes as an able bodied person you are not allowed unless you remove the spacers and buy a machine compliant to that which you are licenced for (cbt, mod1, mod 2 etc) otherwise you need to already hold a full bike licence in which case you can ride one with or without spacers.
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Some people are only alive cos its against the law to kill them.


Last edited by prawny1 on 10:28 - 07 Nov 2013; edited 1 time in total
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate was riding round on a 100cc Yamaha for a few months, found a CX500 going cheap (no one wanted them then), stuck a side car on it, did a test on the thing then removed the side car and with his new full bike licence safely in his pocket, never used a side car again.

It was betterer in the olden days.
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:
Walloper wrote:
When is a three wheeled vehicle a 'trike'?
...You also have reverse trikes like the morgan three wheelers...
aka hammerhead trikes. Like the Can-Am Spyder in Walloper's post above.

prawny1 wrote:
...It is/ was common for those piaggio leany scooter to have axle spacers fitted so that car drivers could use them as trikes and to aid stability, With no power or cc restrictions imposed as is the case with a car license provisional or not.
I was also told popular in London for the congestion charge. IIRC need to register a trike for something like £10 with TfL but pay no congestion charge. Means car driver can use it without taking bike test.

When/if I get unable to go via 2 wheels I'd like to think I'd still be able to ride something like the Can-AM Spyder or even the likes of the Piaggio MP3.
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The Disapproving Brit
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is exactly the fight my other half is having right now. At 4’5, the vast majority of bikes are just not available to her – the few that have a low enough seat are still too wide for her to reach the floor without leaning to the point that she’s likely to drop it. She wants to ride a trike, but didn’t pass her driving test in time to get in under the old rules, so now she needs a bike license.

NABD have told us that the fact that she needs a trike to be modified (controls moving forwards etc) should in itself allow her to qualify for her test on it. There’s no CBT option for trikes either, which means we’ve got to buy her a trike, modify it so she can ride it, and then find an instructor who is both qualified and has the first clue about teaching someone to ride a trike – which is exactly as easy as it sounds for a class of test that didn’t exist before this year, and only affects a tiny minority of people now it is in. Even if she finds an instructor willing to teach her, if the examiner doesn’t agree that she’s disabled (there’s no such thing as ‘registered disabled’ anymore) then she won’t be allowed to take her test on it anyway.
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

prawny1 wrote:

Are reliant robins classed at trikes? If they are I wonder how many reliant robin drivers out there know they now have to take a motorcycle test? Which they must do one a bike unless they are disabled.


Robin reliants are cars mate, they have a body/seats/steering wheel and only require a car ticket to 'DRIVE' one, you dont 'RIDE' a robin reliant Laughing
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 07 Nov 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outlawing trikes for most people is an excellent idea. Mr. Green Mr. Green
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