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 Topic moved: from Random Banter to Politics & Current Affairs by G (19 Feb 2014 - 00:05)
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Boris the spider
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Full life terms Reply with quote

It is about bloody time.

Life should mean life.

Human rights. Get tae fuck Middle Finger
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just need to make the prisons into prisons and not the holiday chalets that they are now.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing has changed. We will still see stupidly short sentences for many crimes that deserve longer, and generally messed up sentencing levels. I actually believe that all should have a right to review, but only in light of compelling new evidence. That's what this is about - right for review.
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Boris the spider
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

And cry it's against their human rights to be locked up for the rest of their living days after being sentenced to life... Shocked

Life should mean just that, regardless of the namby pamby state.

A life for a life.

Thumbs Up
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Ste
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

They've also need to stop handing out pathetically short sentences.

That and what Skudd says, making the idea going to prison actually be a deterrent would have huge benefits to society.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been party to sending so many people to prison, most if not all come out and carry on as they were. Most see it as a way of life, get fixed up while inside, all their medical needs met, good food, nice dwellings. Far better than most have outside in the real world.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

An ePetition which, despite my usual reservations, I actually support.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
An ePetition which, despite my usual reservations, I actually support.


Agreed. I sent a letter to the Attorney General. The response wasnt even worth wiping my arse with.

I'm with Skudd and Ste on this. Agreed!
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its better than the death penalty.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the police weren't such lying bastards who are willing to fit-up innocent people, I would be more than happy to see full-life terms abolished and replaced with a re-introduction of capital punishment.
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ws4936
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
An ePetition which, despite my usual reservations, I actually support.


This
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
I've been party to sending so many people to prison, most if not all come out and carry on as they were. Most see it as a way of life, get fixed up while inside, all their medical needs met, good food, nice dwellings. Far better than most have outside in the real world.


You're correct in a way, for literacy classes for a lot of people, the only way they can get a decent education is to go to prison.

Buckley Hall has a very good education service, based on outcomes it is one of the better ones in the Manchester area.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
If the police weren't such lying bastards who are willing to fit-up innocent people, I would be more than happy to see full-life terms abolished and replaced with a re-introduction of capital punishment.

That is *exactly* the reason why they should not reintroduce it.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:51 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just like the prescedent of a higher level UK court telling The European Court of Human Rights "Fuck off, you're wrong.". Head-on on a direct point of law too, no fannying around the subject, they said "Our interpretation is right, yours is wrong, ours takes prescedence, this is what we're doing.".

Wouldn't really have mattered with regard to what, it establishes who is in charge. At least our courts are ultimately answerable to the people in that if they start sending down nonsense judgements, statute can be changed by the government of the day (and quickly at that if they put their mind to it).

The Strasbourg court on the other hand appears to be answerabe to no-one , or at least no-one who can be got rid of the the population of the country they are supposed to be presiding over, which is what freedom boils down to in the end.
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 18 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I just like the prescedent of a higher level UK court telling The European Court of Human Rights "Fuck off, you're wrong.". Head-on on a direct point of law too, no fannying around the subject, they said "Our interpretation is right, yours is wrong, ours takes prescedence, this is what we're doing.".


It shows that they can do it when they want to (like other countries in the EU do), and begs the question "why can't they do it more often?" (instead of using EU "human rights" as a catch all excuse for poor decision making)
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
I actually believe that all should have a right to review, but only in light of compelling new evidence. That's what this is about - right for review.


They already have that. It's called the court of appeal. If compelling new evidence appears that calls their conviction into question, even for someone on a whole life tarriff, they are free to appeal both the sentence and the judgement. This has always been the case.

The argument from the court of human rights is not to do with wether or not the evidence against the person remains strong enough to secure a conviction, they are arguing that a person found solidly guilty of the crime should have a review into the possability of being released. I'm sorry, but there are some crimes (and we're only talking about 50-odd people here) where there is no way you should ever be released.

Here's a link to a list of people in the UK who have been given a whole life tarriff. Is there a single one of them who, assuming their guilty verdict is sound, should ever be considered for release? Should we hold a parole hearing for Ian Brady? Rose West? Peter Sutcliffe?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/latest-news/jail-warning-for-driver-who-killed-cyclist-1-5868415

How long does that deserve?
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be a lot less costly and beneficial for everyone involved be it victims or future/current offenders if society spent time focusing on how people end up with these sentances in the first place and how prison life functions (or doesn't) as a deterant to such people.

Persisting in trying to lock people away for longer and longer/indefinately isn't an answer or positive for anything. It just satisfies peoples need for vengance and removes the guilt that often lies on everyone else to some extent for failing to prevent what causes half these crimes in the first place.

Its little better than a modern day colleseum displayed through newspapers and televison with the focus on prolonged mental suffering rather than being ripped up by lions as it used to be.

Makes a change to see the EU getting two fingers from us though Mr. Green
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Mark_F
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Matt- wrote:
It would be a lot less costly and beneficial for everyone involved be it victims or future/current offenders if society spent time focusing on how people end up with these sentances in the first place and how prison life functions (or doesn't) as a deterant to such people.


I agree with this, but there has to be recognition that some people can't be helped and, as such, need to be removed from society altogether.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Locking people away for longer in prisons that are prisons rather than holiday camps would be a deterrent, which would be an answer and would be good for everyone.

On a separate point, trial by media doesn't help anything.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/latest-news/jail-warning-for-driver-who-killed-cyclist-1-5868415

How long does that deserve?


Sentence is irrelevant, what it deserves is losing the key and paperwork before release.

It also deserves having the original thread reinstated although possibly locked so people can read what was said at the time. After all, it was only a deer that was killed.


Last edited by sickpup on 00:28 - 19 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Ste
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=1083094

"You're probably right, it didn't stop my brother with his 3-year ban. And the cheeky bastard still got pissed and drove."

Nice... real nice. Rolling Eyes

Sub human scum!


Last edited by Ste on 00:29 - 19 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total
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pits
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Ste wrote:
https://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk/news/latest-news/jail-warning-for-driver-who-killed-cyclist-1-5868415

How long does that deserve?


Sentence is irrelevant, what it deserves is loosing the key and paperwork before release.

It also deserves having the original thread reinstated although possibly locked so people can read what was said at the time. After all, it was only a deer that was killed.

losing*
Thumbs Up


Disregarding the content of that story, anyone who kills someone whilst driving through, drink, drugs, dangerous driving, DWDCA and leaving the scene of an accident shouldn't even have the option of no jail time and a really long time if there are previous offences on file.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pits wrote:
losing*
Thumbs Up


Changed sir, bit tired, please accept my apologies.

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pits
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 19 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
pits wrote:
losing*
Thumbs Up


Changed sir, bit tired, please accept my apologies.

Thumbs Up

Dualley Wink Laughing
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