Thinking about getting a small chopper as first bike

[mrhedgehog]

Hey there! I've just passed my full A license on a fast-track and was hoping for a little advice on what would make a good first bike.

I'm in my late 20s and after a little taster on my girlfriend's dad's bike, and loving it, I decided to get qualified. My plan now is to buy a suitable first bike that will last me the summer months, and travel around Europe with it.

Originally I was interested in getting a second-hand Honda CBR125, and taking that, but now I'm wondering if it'll really be suitable for long journeys in hot weather, with luggage. More recently I had my heart set on a Suzuki Marauder GZ125 (https://goo.gl/wWIOtX), and almost bought one because I felt it was more suited to cruising around at a leisurely pace (max speed is 65mph). It's also a damn good looking bike, in my opinion. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the sale fell through at the last minute.

Before I continue looking, I wanted to see what some real experts thought about my decisions. Are 125's really suitable for long distance travelling or would I be better getting something bigger? Also, would I be irresponsible to buy a Marauder? It's my favourite option by quite a lot, mostly down to the look, low height and storage options, but I have also heard that choppers are usually reserved for more experienced riders. I don't really need something overly fast. I'm in no rush. However, I will probably want to take my girlfriend around with me at some point and am worried that the 125 engine will really struggle with both our weights on it.

Any recommendations I can get will be warmly received. Budget is reasonable (up to £5k) but I think £1-3k makes more sense for a first timer. Also don't want something too old as I'm not much of a mechanic (yet).

[CaNsA]

Dont get a 125.

Get one of THESE

[stinkwheel]

A chopper is a bike which has had it's frame cut, altered and re-joined. Hence "Chopped".

What you're looking at are factory customs or cruisers.

I personally don't like them. The whole feet forwards thing gets tiring after a while and doesn't help with control. Form over function. Each to his own though.

Most of the 125 factory customs you see these days are enormous too. Hard to tell them from the bigger versions and with that comes weight, something a 125 could do without.

Touring is perfectly possible on a 125. Touring 2-up with luggage on a 125 custom is going to be very slow. The pillion seats on them aren't usually much more than a rectangular pad on the rear mudguard too (this goes for a lot of the bigger ones as well) so your mrs isn't going to thank you.

If you've got a full A licence, get a bigger bike. If you want a factory custom, go for it. You'll get a 650 for the same price as a 125 on the second hand market anyway.

If you really liked the GZ125, you could get an Intruder for similar money (fnar).

I would personally go for a more conventional motorcycle though.

I'm going to recommend... A Kawasaki W650/800. Big enough to pull both of you. Unthreatening in terms of power delivery. Comfortable upright riding position for both rider and pillion, reasonably narrow (seat width has a lot more to do with your ability to touch the ground than seat height) and enough chrome and fancy paintwork for you to polish all day long.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[wr6133]

You don't want to go long distance regularly on a 125 cruiser. I had a Jinlun 125-11 cruiser and taking it on long trips was tedious to put it nicely, doable but tedious, cruiser type stuff is (relatively) heavy so with a little 125 engine they are slow, fine for enjoying your local countryside but a total pain in the arse when you get stuck behind a Tesco lorry on the m4 doing 50 and you can't find a massive enough gap in the middle lane to get past the thing. A pillion on an already slow 125 is pretty horrendous too.

I now have a 250 version of the same bike and it handles 2 up fine and can manage on motorways but really if you want to be racking up the miles look for bigger still. XVS650 dragstars would be a good start you can get a decent one for a bit over £2k, it's comfortable, there are masses of aftermarket parts to customise it and it can carry a fair bit off luggage along with a woman on the back and it's shaft drive so no belts or chains to fuck about with.

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Another vote for the W650, and that's from someone who has a Savage
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[The Disapproving Brit]

I started with a 125 cruiser. I love the cruiser styles, but a 125 doesn't cut it if you have a full license. Remember that 65mph top speed will drop drastically if you want to go 2 up with luggage. You'll be ragging the tits off it constantly.

Personally, I'd be looking at a Virago 535 or something bigger. Yes, they're heavy, and the riding style is different, which is why a lot of sports bike riders don't like them, but it's something you get used to. Personally, I massively prefer a cruiser over a sports bike - you pay your money and take your choice.

Don't be intimidated by the large engine size - remember that in the cruiser world, 700-800cc is considered mid range because of the weight difference. Have a few test rides and see what you think.
____________________
Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[Rogerborg]

I can't fathom why you'd get a full A license and then consider a 125 for 2-up touring.

I'm not talking down 125s. I had a blast on mine and (garage space permitting) may even get another as a 2nd or 3rd bike for a short commute.

But for your purposes, dear god, no. You'll be lucky to hit 50mph, think more like 40 or even 35 sustained real speed, particularly in any kind of headwind.

I'd want at least 500cc. If you like cruiser/classic looks then the suggested Kwaks or Viragos, or how about a Triumph Bonneville?

But for your purposes I'd be thinking of something more like a Bandit 600/650 or even the 1250, a Honda Deaville 650/700, Yamaha Diversion 900 or similar. That's what those bikes are designed for, as (to be honest) are the current crop of "adventure" bikes. V-Strom 650, Versys, GS, there are loads of bikes that will get you and the missus around in relative comfort.

At the risk of veering into tl;dr, I'd also note that both 125s and cruisers attract premiums out of proportion to their ability. You'll also pay surprisingly much in insurance on a 125 and may find trouble finding anyone who will offer pillion cover, as the cheapest 125 underwriters are really set up to cover Learners.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[mrhedgehog]

I think the reason I was considering a 125 still was that I wanted to treat it as a learner bike. I skipped right to the highest license because of my age but I'm still a beginner. However, that being said, I can handle a larger bike or I wouldn't have passed, so maybe a 125 doesn't really make sense, especially given that I want to take a pillion passenger and luggage.

Thanks for the recommendations here, I'm checking them all. I'm especially liking the XVS650s, Viragos and Intruders. The Triumph is nice too but seems a bit pricey for a first bike that I will most likely drop at some point. I don't know, maybe I'm just a custom/cruiser fan (thanks for the correction stinkwheel). Having said that, I've never actually ridden one. I'm mostly concerned about the weight and handling. The feet up, laid back positioning shouldn't be a big problem for me. I work in IT and my desk posture often resembles the rider position so it might even be natural, however, I will be sure to try one before I buy. Maybe I'll try a day rental and get a feel for it.

Please keep the recommendations coming. Really appreciating all the help.

[The Disapproving Brit]

[Saltire]

Slightly off topic but I always hated in Pulp Fiction when he said 'it's not a motorcycle it's a chopper'

Choppers = motorcycles or is there something I am missing here.

[i.p.phrealy]

and as a friend pointed out recently, you will find out that a v twin has a LOT of engine breaking.
____________________
it is impossible to lick your own elbow...
and if you just tried you need professional help.
Finally allowed a big bike 19/03/14!

[i.p.phrealy]

[Saltire]

It was stinks comment that spurred mine. My point is it IS a motorcycle.

[i.p.phrealy]

[mailee]

I was in the same position as you in that I wanted a cruiser. After trying a few different bikes out for fit I bought a Virago 750 which I find brilliant. It is heavy but you soon get used to the weight and it has a low centre of gravity and a low seat which helps with my limited height. it is no sports bike by any means but has a good top speed for me (110mph) (not that I have been there.....yet) it has plenty of torque and will happily pull well two up. the foot pegs are not too far forward and both seats are very comfortable for long trips. This is my first big bike and I just do not want to part with it as it is a joy to ride. HTH.

[Teflon-Mike]

Yamaha Virago; Suzuki Savage; Hardley 883 piglet; list of 'My first Cruiser' is long and illustriouse, and probably your best bet to follow the herd on that; they are fairly 'soft' in charecter, and no more no less dangerouse or hard to handle, in fact often probably easier to manage than a tiddler, though tiddler better tool for learning more on.

As for the potentially daft ideas:-

Q) Are 125's really suitable for long distance travelling.
A) Well, there have been some epic round the world adventured completed on lightweights... they have many advantages, not least they tend to be fairly cheap, and the average miles commuter spends more on fuel and servicing each year than the bike cost... so, a bike that uses £30 tyres instead of £120 ones, and does 70mpg instead of 40, if you are doing 10x average annual miles going round the world, can actually be what makes it even possible!

Q) Also, would I be irresponsible to buy a Marauder?
A) No. Dissapointed perhaps. Its the single cylinder cruiserified commuter; and a little bit porky for its power and rather less refined than the twin; is it the 'Savage'? or the Honda Shaddow, now only available 2nd hand, but reportedly the 'best' 125 Cruiser.

125 'Cruiser' though... is a bit of an anathma, though. Cruisers are supposed to be just that, for 'cruising', laid back, 'easy' riding; Relaxed, and comfortable. Sort of implies a big engine, that doesn't work to hard, rather than a little one that has to have the knackers thrashed off it, and the gearbox constantly stirred to keep at the power just to make reasonable progress.

Q) I have also heard that choppers are usually reserved for more experienced riders
A) I have no idea where you might have heard that one from. 'Choppers' as Stink said, are strictly bikes that have been 'chopped' in the frame and welded back together by thier owner to create a genuine 'Custom' to the creators taste
A genuine garage built 'chopper' is something that I am rather loath to ride.... they are not to MY taste; but one-offs and garage builds always have thier own peculiarities, and the more radically a REAL chopper had been altered to get the look the owner wants, more peculiarly they will tend to handle! And I dont like them peculiarities coming as anything of a surprise!
People that build them, will learn to live with those peculiarities, and put up with them.... so, a REAL chopper tends to be something for some-one who has got a bit of experience and knows how an 'ordinary' bike should handle... so when the Chop starts weaving and wobbling, or bits of metal start grinding on the road when tilted into a bend, doesn't think "Oh! Dont they ALL do that?" Chop-Jockeys will also tend to have some reasonable mechanical know-how to have built the thing in the first place; so that may be where its come from. They are enthusiasts creations, not consumer freindly products.

Because what you are talking about is 'Factory Customs' or 'Cruisers' which are out the show-room standard bikes, that ape the 'custom' style created by masocistic enthusiasts from blood sweat, tears, cheap scrap and expensive paint. (Or as often these days, expensive kits, even more expensive accessories selected from catalogue, and put together by a contractor even more expensively with even more expensive paint and chrome, to create a bit of automotive jewlery, and about as functionally useful!)

But factory Cruiser, not designed for 'performance'; and with the benefit of a big factory R&D team, constantly hassled by liability lawyers, replying to "No-One Could be THAT stoopid!" With "Oh Yes they could! AND they will Sue Us!" The factory Cruisers tend not to have any extreme geometry or weight or mismatched brakes or such like, and tend not to have any well hidden handling quirks to catch you by surprise.

They ARE designed for American Hill-Billies..... and in many states of the US, you dont even have to take a drivers exam to ride a motorbike; just fill in a form to get a permit... so it does require a little more intelligence from them than buying a hand-gun or assault riffle.... BUT... that's not saying much really! And so, they give 883 Harleys to High-School kids we wouldn't give a moped to, and threaten the showroom staff with a Lawyer Feud if little Billy-Bob be hurt on it!

To wit; factory cruisers are NOT by any stretch of the imagination, 'finely engineered' razor edge precision instruments for experts only! If you like that sort of style, they can be a fairly sensible Newbie bike, they dont have huge capability and thier nature doesn't really encourage you to try exploring the limits of what they might have.

>I don't really need something overly fast. I'm in no rush.
< good. rushing be fast way to get hurt when it comes to bikes.

Q) However, I will probably want to take my girlfriend around with me at some point and am worried that the 125 engine will really struggle with both our weights on it.
A) see earlier comments. 125s STRUGGLE. end of.
Also, Cruisers... though it varies widely, often dont have the most commodious pillion accommodation to begin with, and crudimentary 125's even less. Typical cruiser will tend to have some big broad buttoned armchair for the rider to sit on, but the passenger will have to make do with a bit of foam on the back mudguard, and even on a better one, passengers can start moaning after only a few miles; if they even get that far... same might be said of many of bike styles; BUT cruisers? Passenger accommodation is probably best considered an 'occassional seat' to put a passenger you have picked up from town or who just wants a lift to the railway station... not some-where to stick one for a full days touring.

When I met her, my O/H had a Chinese Cruiserette; one of the better ones, Copy of the Honda 125 Shaddow Twin. Did about 55mph flat out, and did it regardless of whether it was ridden solo or two up, and we had a few 2up outings on the thing, which I recall as being 'a bit of fun'... but she just grimaces at, five years later, still remembering the pain of that pillion pad trying to worm its way between her buttocks, while the swing arm mounted foot-rests, hammered her feet leaving her shaking like she had a palsy! "Shut UP and stop winging, woman! when you ride baitch - youz nothing but LUGGAGE. Sacks of spuds dont scream!" This is probably why they say Cruisers are for fags and wankers.... for some reason, there was no sex for a month after that... I think it must have been the pillion pad But, the bike! Provided you didn't mind 'cruising' at moped speeds, and stirring the gearbox a bit, wasn't THAT bad, at least for an hour or so each way... for the rider!

IF you want to really consider two-up touring seriousely; then I would seriousely reccomend you look at touring bikes, not cruisers.

Doesn't have to be a full dress Goldwing or Pan-Euro; but if you want to keep a pillion happy, you do need something that has pillion accomodation designed for that, and I would steer you towards stuff like the XJ900, more conventional all-round street or muscle bikes, with big wide pillion perches, nice grab rails, and well supported footrests. Their styling also tends to be less compromised when decked out with touring luggage.

Cruisers? all about the style; rather lost if the bike is hidden under loads of bags strapped wherever they will fit, and fancy paintwork scratched by bungees!

I would also suggest, that you dont plan to head off to Bonga-Bonga as your first two-up excursion after a totter round the car-park.

Carrying a pillion requires you to evolve a new rider skillset, of how the bike behaves when you have a pillion on it, and learn how to accomodate that, and anything they do.

Its also something of a 'partnership', you have to learn how your pillion behaves on the back. Some sit there rigid as a plank shit scared. Some wiggle around... often at the wrong time. Some try and steer the bike for you, or fight it; but a GOOD pillion, is almost two minds as one; they are relaxed, they trust you implicitly, and they know what you are going to do, and you know what they are going to do, and an absolute joy. And IF you plan major 2Up touring THAT is the kind of pillion you really want to make it a joyouse experience, and building that kind of riding partnership takes time.

Start with round the block forreys; then as far as town; then a pootle to a country pup or resturant of a sunny evening, building up, through longer ride-outs to whole days in the saddle, then weekends, THEN maybe, a week in the Lake District.... I really wouldn't hang the value of ferry tickets and pass-ports against the risk of having to cut the adventure short, if the pillion starts winging, trying to go for it too early.

Alternatively? What about seeing if the missus is up to learning to ride?

Might make more sense going with the 125 idea as a short term thing; get her to try do CBT, get her insured on the tiddler, and let her potter it about a car-park; see if she takes to it. If so... you let her have the 125 for a while, till she can do a course, and go get yourself something a bit bigger; and you do the ride-outs and day trips together on two bikes.

Often far more fun to ride as a 'group' than have a pillion loading your bike, beating fists on your back every time you go over 50, and grumbling they cant see anything but the back of your crash helmet!

But, If you do persue two-up: I would reccomend getting a GOOD rider-pillion intercom ASAP; being able to talk to your passenger through a headset, let them know whats going on, or just hear you still there, remembering they are there, can give them SO much more re-assurance and make them that much more comfortable and relaxed, you can both more enjoy the ride

Q) Also don't want something too old as I'm not much of a mechanic (yet).
A) Bikes ent cars, dont apply car-driver thinking to them. Cars get used like a domestic applience, and so within fairly typical limits, age and wear and tear is pretty much proportional, and indicated by recorded mileage on the oddometer.
Use you have suggested you want a bike for ISN'T domestic applience, get to and from work, do the shopping stuff, is it? You have ideas about riding accross Europe, and doing things on the weekend. Its a bit of leisure equipment, like a set of golf-clubs or a multi-gym, or a fishing rod.

Age is no indicator of how 'good' a set of second hand golf-clubs might be. Some keener golfers will be out every weekend, ruining a good walk in the country trying to loose a little plastic ball down a rabbit hole; maybe even giving them a battering stopping off at the driving range after work three nights a week. Others, may buy all the 'must have kit' before they go on some Golf-Resort holiday for two weeks, have two lessons with the pro, and play 9 holes between lessons, before they get home, chuck them in the back of the garage, and they never see the light of day until three years later, missus wants to make space for a new freezer and they end up on e-bay.

Same with Factory Cruisers... like you, many owners dont buy them as every day, use like a dish-washer, to and from work transport, but a high-day and holiday 'toy'.

Built for show not go, many owners wont even take them out in the rain... and spend more time polishing them than riding them... as keeping all that brightwork shiney can be a bit of a pain in the arse!

Which all means that you CAN turn up some pretty good and pretty solid bikes second hand, and they can be DECADES old, but still 'good'... and selling on shiney, something that has festered a winter or two in a garage, and doesn't scrub up in much of a hurry, can turn out to be a bit of a bargain.

Mechanically? They tend to be simpler, more 'conventional' or even read 'old fasioned', than other genres of bike. Typically they are a four stroke V-Twin, many are air-cooled, and some even have push-rods still, instead of more complicated overhead cams; suspension is often simple twin-shock-absorber on a swing arm, and forks conventional telescopic jobs, and they tend not to hide so much behind expanses of cunningly attached and easy to crack plastic bodywork.. These are the sort of ingredients that make them slightly more DIY maintainable, and newby spanner monkey freindly, and if even that's too much like hard work... and its supposed to be your leisure equipment, so who wants hard work... well, same traits that make them easier for the ameteur, tend to make them easier for the paid mechanic, and that tends to imply 'cheaper'.

So dont be afraid of looking at 'older' bikes; especially reletive to what you would consider an 'old' car. There are plenty of twenty-plus year old bikes out there still in in regular, if often infrequent use, with plenty of life left in them. And old bikes don't die... they just become 'projects'!

And again, older bikes can have many plusses; most stuff built in the last fifteen years has had to meet tougher new emmissions regulations which has meant de-tuning them, so less power or a bigger engine; or they have had to gain the complexity of fuel injection, and or water cooling and or multi-valve heads, and a host of other complications in pipe-work and plumbing. All making machine more complex, and more difficult to maintain and repair, and do it cheaply, whether DIY or by paid mechanic.

Buy on CONDITION, and dont let shiney brightwork, paint and chrome, fool you into thinking that if it looks good, it must be good. Paint and chrome is often only thing on this genre (and many others if truth be told) to get any user attention; easy to polish exhausts and petrol tank, rather harder, and scarier to grease suspension or clean brake caliper pins; feels good to bolt on shiney bits from the accessory catalogues, to make the bike more... whatever; rather less fullfilling to replace knackered shock-absorbers, just to keep it as good as it was when it was new.

AND END OF THE DAY... almost getting there... whatever we might suggest or recommend.... you can only buy something some-one offers you for sale.

Bikes ent Cars. There's something like one point seven cars per household in the UK now; over half the poeple alive in the UK have a car available for thier own personal use. Thats a lot of fucking boxes littering the streets! Something like 30 million actually!

A domestic applience? Life of the car is pretty predictable. They get bought new, most often by a fleet leasing company; sold on second hand after about nine months to first private owner who keeps it about two years until the first MOT is due, when it gets traded in. Sold through second hand dealership, and goes through maybe two owners each keeping it two or three years, until it falls into the realms of the small ads to be sold privately, from about seven years old, where it may have another two or three owners before being scrapped at around ten to twelve years old.

30 million cars, living on average ten years, means 30,000 new cars a year, changing hands seven times, in thier lives; means something like quarter of a million cars get sold each year.

There is only one motorcycle for every twenty cars registered for road use in the UK. Of them, only about half are actually taxed and road legal to ride.

And bought as sporting goods like the golf-clubs, they don't change hands as predictably as cars. They can sit in the back of sheds or garages, as ornaments, or mechano kits or simply ignored or forgotten.

Strategically targeting a certain model of motorcycle then, you often have to open your horizons, and not suppose you can find one in the regional Auto-Trader, let alone that it will be the colour you want and have the options pack you would preffer! There just AREN'T the same number of bikes being offered for sale each week.

So you may have to look more widely than you would if you were planning to buy a car; and be prepared to travel many miles, rather than just detour on the way home from work to look at one; and you are likely to have to accept a large degree of hobsons choice and pick NOT from everything that is listed in the used bike buyers guide.... BUT from whats actually in MCN Bike Mart, Bike Trader or on evil bay etc.

And ultimately; hands on, what YOU think of what you see, and its condition and price and 'value'...

In that place, what we say will probably make jack shit odds... you will buy with your head or your heart, whichever tuggs hardest, and any grand plan will probably have gone out the window long before when you have tried a few biukes for size and fit, and or got dissolusioned with what you can actually find locally or not so locally.

So KEEP AN OPEN MIND... and just go window shopping; look and touch REAL bikes! Find what YOU like and think is suitable and Value for Money. Get off the internet, and into the real world... THAT is what you WANT a motorbike for isn't it? So start doing that in looking for the bike to begin with.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[CaNsA]

Well done teffers,

That post has crashed my browser even though i have 3gb of ram in this laptop.

[wr6133]

[MC]

RSI from scrolling...
https://www.scenartherapist.co.uk/images/iStock_000002609294Small.jpg
____________________
Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04

[Clutchy]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Saltire]

Its more the fact that people obviously don't want to and aren't going to read something so ridiculously long.

I'm sure there are some interesting shit in there but a good writer is someone who knows how to take a point and express it without going on.

Quality over quantity n all that pish

[Teflon-Mike]

[Saltire]

We are pointing out the obvious but you are not picking up the obvious.

No one wants to read all that shit.

[Ste]

It's not a thousand words with one nugget of wisdom, it's three thousands and forty six words with no nugget of wisdom.

If you've got anything useful to say then it's much better if you can do so without padding it out with thousands of words of waffling crap.