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YBR chain slack

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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: YBR chain slack Reply with quote

Finally thought to check the chain after washing it and found 8mm play. Adjusted everything the manual says but it didnt say which direction to adjust... Should the pin be screwing in towards the front of the bike or screw out towards the back?

I screwed out towards the back but then i could see the front of it wasnt pressing against anything. So if its meant to be this way, does the chain need replacing? I started screwing inwards the other way and it still wasnt affecting the tension. I then met resistance on one side and rounded off the nut Rolling Eyes thoughts?
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SQL
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't do work on your bike?
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youtube has a bunch of vids on this.

But basically

- Slacken the rear brake
- Slacken the torsion bar bolt (no need to remove entirely)
- Slacken the axle bolt
- Slacken the locking nuts on the chain adjusting bolts
- Rotate rear wheel and find the a tightest point on the chain, check roughly in the middle of the chain.
- Press the chain down, start measuring, push the chain up and measure the difference between the two points (the deflection).
You want around 20-25mm of deflection.
- Turn the chain adjusting bolts clockwise to press against the frame resulting in a tighter chain, or anti-clockwise to loosen.
- Adjust by the same amount on both sides and check against the notches in the frame, that they are equal on both sides.
- As a final check, measure from the middle of the axle bolt to the middle of the swingarm bolt (should be equal on both sides).

- Tighten the chain adjustment locking nuts
- Tighten the axle bolt
- Tighten the torsion bar
- Adjust the rear brake to 25-30mm travel.

Apologies if I missed something.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah saw a youtube vid but didnt see the direction, thanks. Pressing against frame is tighter, ok good but was meeting a lot more resistance than on the vid. Does that mean one of the other nuts wasnt loose enough?

How can i resolve the rounding off. Will i need to get a new nut?
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:

How can i resolve the rounding off. Will i need to get a new nut?


A rounded nut is only ever likely to get worse and worse until you can not get it off. Molegrips can help, but its better to just get a replacement nut.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 30 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks. It actually had a screw head on the end so will try that first.

How important is torque wrench on axle nut? Can you not just get it tight as fuck by hand?
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zark
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

8mm play before adjusting it??

What made you think it needs to be tighter?!!
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 07:22 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean 80mm
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 07:36 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
I mean 80mm

Shocked
That's over three inches!
Is that up and down play or how far back you had to move the axle back to get the up-down play in the bottom run down to about and inch?

Two thoughts spring to mind.
1/ new chain & sprockets may be on order.
2/ Cush Drive bushes, would be worth checking / replacing.

CDB's are rubber blocks in the back wheel; paddles on the sprocket hub press on one ond of them, other end presses on webs in the rear wheel hub to transmit drive, but provide some complience. Makes the transmission less harsh and snatchy; but tend to get hammered a bit on a lightweight learner legal, from less precice newby gearchanges and throttle control, and will go sloppy, even more so if the Chain has been allowed to go monstrousely out of tension.

New ones, along with C&S all properly lubed and tensioned, though will make huge difference to how easy it is to shift gear, and do it so much more smoothly. New CDR's are only about £15 a set too, and a worth while service replacement when you do C&S, for future note, if chain ent dead... yet.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 09:02 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats 70mm up and 10mm down. Im going to give tightening it another go on weds (if i can manage it with the rounded adjustment bolt) now that i know which direction to go. Is there anything i can do to get it to turn easier. Should the axle bolt looser? Will check those CDB Too
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zark
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to be thinking about the whole deflection in the chain... How much up or down doesn't really matter... It'll naturally hang down due to the weight of it anyways...

Which nut have you rounded? The brake arm is a 13mm spanner... Needs to be open ended as there's a split pin on the end. (mine was solid and had to be cut off)
Then the axle needs a 17mm on the left side and a 19mm on the right... Ring spanners will help avoid them slipping off and smashing your knuckles into the floor... You'll see the frame 'expand' away from the wheel as you loosen the nut... Just enough to allow the wheel to move will do.

Hold a 10 mm spanner on the end of the adjuster, and use the 13mm on the locking nut. Wind the locking nut anti-clockwise a few turns, then wind the 10mm nut clockwise to push against the frame. This pushes the wheel backwards and tightens the chain.
Same amount both sides, the notches will help here. If you need to... slacken off the locknuts further as you wind in the adjuster.

Get the right tension and then hold the 10mm steady while you tighten the 13mm locknut again.

Give the wheel a spin, measure and tighten everything up. Adjust rear brake pedal if necessary... I'm getting close to the end of my adjustment notches so will be looking at new chain and sprockets soon... That's helpful about the cush drive there... Makes sense while the wheel's off.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the adjuster on the left size thats rounded off. Theres a screw head in the end of it though so will try using that
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 09:31 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
Thats 70mm up and 10mm down. Im going to give tightening it another go on weds (if i can manage it with the rounded adjustment bolt) now that i know which direction to go. Is there anything i can do to get it to turn easier. Should the axle bolt looser? Will check those CDB Too


OK, just had a look on e-bay; YBR uses pretty common cap & screw adjusters, so screw in to tension, out to loosen. always remember to slack the lock-nut off first.

TIP: when you oil the chain.... give the adjuster a squib too so it dont sieze for when you come to tension.

TIP2: The adjuster screws tend to be standard M6 bolts with a mild taper ground on the end. When I find them chewed, mangled, bent or otherwise deformed; I tend to just pick stock M6 out the pot and grind pointy bit on the end to locate in the dimple on the end of the swing-arm. If you dont have grinder though.... UGH! £17! Made of titanium! FUCK I would expect them to be made of bludy Platignum for that ruddy money! Why would you want light weight titanium adjuster screws on cheapest humblest commuter bike there is anyway?!?!? God E-bay be crazy at times!.. I was going to say, OE parts should only be a couple of quid.... try Yamaha, they are probably more reasonable; failing that, just get a couple of M6's from Halfords in od-pax! Dont look like they have much of a taper on the end anyway!

As for turning easier.... yes. Undo the lock-nut before you try screwing the adjuster bolt in. Hold lock nut 'loose' with second spanner, while you screw adjuster in. See tip 1. new bolt; squib of chain lube on the threads before fitting. Old bolt, remove completely, clean squib & refit.

TIP 3: after loosing axle; and loosing adjustor lock nuts, and if necessary removing cleaning & lubing adjuster bolts; let adjuster plates drop away from swing arm; clean them, and give them a squib of oil, then re-locate.

Before trying to adjust chain; loosen off the rear brake torque restraint arm and the rear brake pedal adjuster. Or you will be trying to pull the axle back against that restraint and pulling back brake on at the same time.

Re-align adjuster plates and fit bolts; then checking against index marks, DONT do up the chain side until teh chain is tight, then try and level the other side. put 1 turn on each adjuster, at a time until 'close' and then check axle is square and marks even both sides. Then fine adjust chain tension, 1/2 or quarter turn on each side to suit.

After tightening axle, remember to re-tight the brake torque arm, and THEN adjust the rear brake.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Got some replacement stainless steel ones on ebay for £6. Will fit them on weds and see how i get on. As it stands it is on the 4th from last alignment notch. Will have to see how far that changes
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is torque wrench essential for axle?
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_mjs_
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
Is torque wrench essential for axle?


No, just torque it up with a spanner to FT Thumbs Up
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

FT?
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_mjs_
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
FT?


Fucking tight Laughing

It's one of the few bolts on the bike that needs to be very tight. Don't go mental on it though or you'll crush your wheel bearings.

Also make sure to use a split pin to hold it in place.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 31 Mar 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats some lazy arsed abbreviation.. I thought i was down with the kids! Ok nice one Thumbs Up
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 07:15 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

And when he says FT he doesn't mean FT for a landrover. He means FT for a jap bike. Big difference. Iow, it's easier to nip it up and crush a bearing than you might think.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 09:09 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
And when he says FT he doesn't mean FT for a landrover. He means FT for a jap bike. Big difference. Iow, it's easier to nip it up and crush a bearing than you might think.


Yeah; I suppose FT could do with being a bit more refined. I'll rise to the chalenge.

finger tight = nut just touching, can turn it with your fingers. Sneeze and it will unwind.
'Nipped' = finger tight + 1/14 turn with finger pressure on a spanner
'Tightened' = Nipped plus a bit, but not enough to make you grunt. White marks in your palm where spanner is, not blue.

We are then into the range of FT, and I work on the 'Grunt' scale, or how many 'grunts' you expend, beyond 'tightened'

A lightweight motorbike rear axle nut, should be about half a grunt tight, a 'soft' grunt perhaps; tight, but a little bit beyond, enough to warrant some audible sign of effort, but not so much as to need a full 'grunt' as that will be nipping up the bearing inner races.

Which is a noteable point for you Trevor. Land-Rover Hub-Nuts, err, three and a half inch accross flats ISTR, are ACTUALLY only supposed to be 'finger' tight Shocked . Opposed conical bearings you see. You wind them in with the hub-nut, to about one grunt, to make sure they are seated, than back off, to between finger tight and nipped, lock with a tab-washer, then wind lock nut into 'nipped' and lock that with other tank of the tab-washer.

Wheel nuts should only be about half to three quarters of a grunt too. And apart from cylinder head bolts, I cant think of many fastenings that are much over a grunt-worth on a Land-Rover... well, to do UP at least Laughing

Swing Arm Spindle? Probably about the tightest fastener I can think of on a motorbike. Now that probably warrants a full grunt, maybe a tad more.
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ficedula
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
And when he says FT he doesn't mean FT for a landrover. He means FT for a jap bike. Big difference. Iow, it's easier to nip it up and crush a bearing than you might think.


...which is one reason I'm glad I have a torque wrench. Having done up the rear axle bolt a couple of times with a torque wrench, I'm pretty sure I could do it without now and get it right - but that first time, if you haven't got somebody with you to demonstrate? Mm.

(If you could borrow one just to do it the first time and find out how tight it's meant to be, it's not a bad idea.)
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YBR Ric
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
Thanks. Got some replacement stainless steel ones on ebay for £6. Will fit them on weds and see how i get on. As it stands it is on the 4th from last alignment notch. Will have to see how far that changes



The YBR has 8 notches in total. I've used one in the last 20,000 miles.
I'm not expecting to replace the OEM chain until after the Odometer reaches zero again. I guess at 4th notch from the end you must almost be there. Mr. Green



number of chain notches corrected Embarassed


Last edited by YBR Ric on 09:28 - 02 Apr 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

And its only done 13k!
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 01 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

YBR Ric wrote:

The YBR has 10 notches in total. I've used one in the last 20,000 miles.
I'm not expecting to replace the OEM chain until after the Odometer reaches zero again.


Ric, in my best Mr Brittas voice, what is your chain lubing and cleaning regime?
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