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| Suntan Sid |
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 Suntan Sid World Chat Champion

Joined: 07 May 2009 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:59 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: Bend Over For Big Brother! |
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In a shock, (sic), annoucement, insurance companies come up with a new wheeze to trouser more of your cash!
As predicted, it seems like no black box, no insurance, no ride!
Crack open the lube and bend over, yet again!
Apparently it's for our own good and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a desire to make more money!
We Want More Money, Whine Here.
Fook You, Insurance Faggots!  ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!"  |
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| map |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 22:16 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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I like how Direct Line say it could save (up to) 40% on renewal.
Based on my experience* of their renewal that'd be 40% off something like a 140% increase.
When these companies say they're giving you a % off how do you know? After all you're just given an amount to pay.
* gave me a renewal price. Entered my info on their own website quote came out at about half their renewal quote. I do not trust insurance companies. Despite the advertising they are a business out to screw you over. They are not your friend. ____________________ ...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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| dodsi |
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 dodsi Dirty Carny

Joined: 06 Aug 2004 Karma :  
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| SQL |
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 SQL World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 Aug 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 22:42 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| Shaft |
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 Shaft World Chat Champion

Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Karma :    
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| smegballs |
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 smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :  
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 Posted: 22:49 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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How the fuck am I going to about my evening murdering prostitutes and dumping the bodies with these black boxes installed. The police are going to have it way too easy tying my car to the burial site.  |
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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Apr 2013 Karma :     
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 Posted: 23:00 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Give it another decade and it will be time for electronically issued speeding fines  |
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| slowlydoesit |
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 slowlydoesit Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 23:18 - 19 May 2014 Post subject: Re: Bend Over For Big Brother! |
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| Suntan Sid wrote: | As predicted, it seems like no black box, no insurance, no ride! |
Three thoughts on this.
First, this is just an article in a newspaper, written by a journalist who has talked to some industry figures with opinions on the subject. Neither journalists nor industry experts have extra-ordinary powers to see the future. They're taking an educated guess. They might well be completely mistaken. Most auto industry pundits in 2007 had no idea how dramatically the industry's fortunes would fluctuate between 2008-2011, for example.
Second, insurance is a business. Insurers (try to) make money by charging premiums that are, in aggregate and over a certain period of time, higher than the amount they expect - in statistical terms - to pay out. The difference is profit. So, if they increase the premiums that their customers pay, they will make more profit. If enough customers appear willing to pay higher premiums instead of using a black box, some insurers will almost certainly offer that option. So customers may end up paying a little more, but they don't have to accept a black box. As the article itself suggests, "opt-out" may no longer be the default, but there's no reason to suppose "no black box, no insurance".
Third, there is another option. If the insurance business is so lucrative - though that doesn't seem to me to be the case, given that even majors like Aviva have posted losses in recent history - maybe we should just start our own insurance company and show the competition how crap they really are. How hard can it be? ____________________ Kawasaki KMX200 with broken fixed powervalves and a stutter |
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| kramdra |
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 kramdra World Chat Champion

Joined: 28 Oct 2010 Karma :     
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| orac |
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 orac World Chat Champion
Joined: 25 Sep 2011 Karma :   
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| _mjs_ |
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 _mjs_ Could Be A Chat Bot

Joined: 23 Feb 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 03:04 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Surely this is self defeating for the insurance companies because if you can't get away with speeding now and then, why buy a fast vehicle? Then if nobody buys fast vehicles, the insurance companies can't bumrape people with expensive insurance for said fast vehicles
Or will it just be another case of only wealthier people can drive fast? ____________________ Previous Bikes: 2006 Honda XR125L > 2003 Yamaha DT125R > 1996 Honda CB500
Current bikes: 1997 Kawasaki ZZR 600 E5 > 2006 Honda Varadero XL125V |
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| arry |
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 arry Super Spammer
Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Karma :    
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| slowlydoesit |
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 slowlydoesit Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Karma :   
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 07:29 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| slowlydoesit wrote: | | kramdra wrote: | Do you realise its in a company's interests not to post a profit? Tax avoidance. Its very common.. every company does it. |
For small private companies I think you have a point. For listed companies like Aviva nothing could be further from the truth. |
What they wank over is Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization.
Anyway, the elephant in the woodpile is this:
| TFA wrote: | The technology will soon be fitted in new cars as standard. Under EU regulations, all new cars will need black box-style technology, known as eCall, from October 2015, to help emergency services find crashed vehicles. |
Suuuuure, that's the reason. Why, there could be children in all those cars that crash in remote locations!
On topic, has anyone yet seen an insurer offering or requiring spychips on bikes? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| dydey90 |
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 dydey90 World Chat Champion

Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Karma :   
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| Rogue_Shadow |
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 Rogue_Shadow World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 07:38 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Opt out
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| Robby |
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 Robby Dirty Old Man

Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :   
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 Posted: 07:44 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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I'm in two minds about this, even starting from the position that the newpaper article is a newspaper article, and shouldn't be taken as a work of fact.
On the one hand, if we want to get towards the future utopian road system that allows driverless cars, smart GPS that tells you where other cars are or what's around the blind corner, and some kind of activity logging to hit back against crash-for-cash scams and the like, vehicles will have to be fitted with some sort of tracker or transponder. To get towards utopia these would need to be installed and managed with privacy and safety as the headline concerns. My safety I mean real safety, not whatever BRAKE is getting worked up about this week.
On the other hand, this is an easy back door into road charging, easy speeding tickets, and removing all fun from driving or riding.
I do expect the use of black boxes to increase. It does work for young drivers, particularly when the black box connects to the smartphone app and they can compete for a high score.
I expect that in reality, many insurers will require the use of a black box, but that means that many insurers will also make their money by offering non black box policies. It may end up being another specialist offering from Adrian Flux.
End result for me, I would probably end up with a slightly cheaper black box policy on the car, and a slightly more expensive untracked policy on the bike. The costs would balance each other out. |
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| map |
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 map Mr Calendar

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 08:51 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| orac wrote: | looks like i will be sticking with driving old buckets to help reduce the risk of them forcing the issue on me... |
Older machinery might not be able to be retro fitted with black box but there's stuff like the Aviva Drive phone app.
As said above there may be specialist deals if bike so old no black box, like the insurance deals for vintage motorcycles. Or they'll just charge you lots and lots so it's not worth keeping older machines on the road as cannot afford to insure anymore. I happen to like older machinery.
| Rogerborg wrote: | ...Anyway, the elephant in the woodpile is this:
| TFA wrote: | The technology will soon be fitted in new cars as standard. Under EU regulations, all new cars will need black box-style technology, known as eCall, from October 2015, to help emergency services find crashed vehicles. |
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So speaks the EU. Now I wonder what lobby group stands to get some financial gain safety kudos over that. Brown envelopes changing hands I suspect.
| Rogerborg wrote: | ...On topic, has anyone yet seen an insurer offering or requiring spychips on bikes? |
Funilly enough, no. However, I expect some rip off enterprising insurance company will suggest something like the Aviva Drive phone app for bikers.
BTW if you look into Aviva Drive app IMO it's not that good a deal. Only get the maximum 20% is your insurance is over £400 (which ok, most under 25s will probably be). The insurance has to be fully comprehensive as well. So that's only saving you £80. A tank of petrol would cost more than that. ____________________ ...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

Joined: 20 Feb 2012 Karma :   
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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 Posted: 12:07 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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Can you play with the Aviva phone app without taking out insurance. Who can get the worse score while riding their bike.  ____________________ Victory Cross Country American tractor. |
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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| Snorty |
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 Snorty World Chat Champion

Joined: 13 Oct 2010 Karma :     
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

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| slowlydoesit |
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 slowlydoesit Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 14 Oct 2012 Karma :   
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 Posted: 15:30 - 20 May 2014 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | What they wank over is Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization. |
I think that depends on the investor and the region. I'd argue that operating income rather than EBITDA is what they should wank over, at least for a manufacturing company. Depreciation is not an imaginary accounting item, it's a real operating cost and I think it deserves to viewed as such. Not that EBITDA is not sometimes useful.
That minor quibble aside, if you read the financial web sites, especially those that are US-centric, earnings per share is still the metric that dominates reporting. "Dell came in two cents short of consensus", "GOOG beat EPS expectations by $0.27" and so on. Given how easy it is to manipulate EPS, it's absurd to be paying so much attention to this one figure. You see some companies posting quarter after quarter of EPS for years on end. That just has to be manipulation.
But we digress. ____________________ Kawasaki KMX200 with broken fixed powervalves and a stutter |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 182 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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