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Bend Over For Big Brother!

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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Bend Over For Big Brother! Reply with quote

In a shock, (sic), annoucement, insurance companies come up with a new wheeze to trouser more of your cash!

As predicted, it seems like no black box, no insurance, no ride!
Crack open the lube and bend over, yet again! Rolling Eyes

Apparently it's for our own good and has nothing, whatsoever, to do with a desire to make more money!

We Want More Money, Whine Here.

Fook You, Insurance Faggots! Middle Finger
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 22:16 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how Direct Line say it could save (up to) 40% on renewal.
Based on my experience* of their renewal that'd be 40% off something like a 140% increase.

When these companies say they're giving you a % off how do you know? After all you're just given an amount to pay.




* gave me a renewal price. Entered my info on their own website quote came out at about half their renewal quote. I do not trust insurance companies. Despite the advertising they are a business out to screw you over. They are not your friend.
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dodsi
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

All those years ago when Marjay was banging on about this and we thought he deserved a tinfoil hat for it... how wrong we were. He had it bang on!
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SQL
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.jammer4uk.com/portable-gps-jammer-l1-l2-j240d-p-4.html?zenid=f04o6vh2df1spgfoc6d0ltqms4

Job Jobbed Mr. Green
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

dodsi wrote:
All those years ago when Marjay was banging on about this and we thought he deserved a tinfoil hat for it... how wrong we were. He had it bang on!


It didn't take a genius to work that out, the high ups have been looking for new and even more stealthy ways of watching us, since the introduction of credit cards and ATMs in the 60s.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

How the fuck am I going to about my evening murdering prostitutes and dumping the bodies with these black boxes installed. The police are going to have it way too easy tying my car to the burial site. Mad
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give it another decade and it will be time for electronically issued speeding fines Sad
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Bend Over For Big Brother! Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
As predicted, it seems like no black box, no insurance, no ride!

Three thoughts on this.

First, this is just an article in a newspaper, written by a journalist who has talked to some industry figures with opinions on the subject. Neither journalists nor industry experts have extra-ordinary powers to see the future. They're taking an educated guess. They might well be completely mistaken. Most auto industry pundits in 2007 had no idea how dramatically the industry's fortunes would fluctuate between 2008-2011, for example.

Second, insurance is a business. Insurers (try to) make money by charging premiums that are, in aggregate and over a certain period of time, higher than the amount they expect - in statistical terms - to pay out. The difference is profit. So, if they increase the premiums that their customers pay, they will make more profit. If enough customers appear willing to pay higher premiums instead of using a black box, some insurers will almost certainly offer that option. So customers may end up paying a little more, but they don't have to accept a black box. As the article itself suggests, "opt-out" may no longer be the default, but there's no reason to suppose "no black box, no insurance".

Third, there is another option. If the insurance business is so lucrative - though that doesn't seem to me to be the case, given that even majors like Aviva have posted losses in recent history - maybe we should just start our own insurance company and show the competition how crap they really are. How hard can it be?
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you realise its in a company's interests not to post a profit? Tax avoidance.

Its very common.. every company does it.
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orac
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PostPosted: 02:14 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like i will be sticking with driving old buckets to help reduce the risk of them forcing the issue on me.

its soon going to be a case of, if you dont wont them following every breath you take, move to the arizona desert and wear a tinfoil hat
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_mjs_
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PostPosted: 03:04 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely this is self defeating for the insurance companies because if you can't get away with speeding now and then, why buy a fast vehicle? Then if nobody buys fast vehicles, the insurance companies can't bumrape people with expensive insurance for said fast vehicles Thinking

Or will it just be another case of only wealthier people can drive fast?
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arry
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PostPosted: 05:48 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramdra wrote:
Do you realise its in a company's interests not to post a profit? Tax avoidance.

Its very common.. every company does it.


Yeah, shareholders LOVE it, especially in the investment world Rolling Eyes

It's been best part of 15 years telematics have been around - means that story has been regurgitated at least 15 times since, and I've still no black box being forced my way

Non story
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 06:58 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramdra wrote:
Do you realise its in a company's interests not to post a profit? Tax avoidance. Its very common.. every company does it.

For small private companies I think you have a point. For listed companies like Aviva nothing could be further from the truth. Company management is incentivised on profit. Higher level management usually owns shares or has option plans, and the City and Wall Street are fixated on earnings per share. So when earnings (profit) falls, typically so does the share price and so does management's bonus.

One of the many problems of the current economic system is that listed companies care too much about short-term profit. That's largely because the managers want to get paid and the markets (usually) punish a poor quarter by selling the stock. The quarterly reporting system has a lot to answer for. We desperately need companies to shift their focus to longer term goals.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

slowlydoesit wrote:
kramdra wrote:
Do you realise its in a company's interests not to post a profit? Tax avoidance. Its very common.. every company does it.

For small private companies I think you have a point. For listed companies like Aviva nothing could be further from the truth.

What they wank over is Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization.

Anyway, the elephant in the woodpile is this:

TFA wrote:
The technology will soon be fitted in new cars as standard. Under EU regulations, all new cars will need black box-style technology, known as eCall, from October 2015, to help emergency services find crashed vehicles.

Suuuuure, that's the reason. Why, there could be children in all those cars that crash in remote locations!

On topic, has anyone yet seen an insurer offering or requiring spychips on bikes?
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 07:29 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

_mjs_ wrote:
Surely this is self defeating for the insurance companies because if you can't get away with speeding now and then, why buy a fast vehicle? Then if nobody buys fast vehicles, the insurance companies can't bumrape people with expensive insurance for said fast vehicles Thinking

Or will it just be another case of only wealthier people can drive fast?


Or they just lower the standard for a 'fast' vehicle. They'll take the stance that 100bhp is more than enough for anybody and charge through the nose for anything above that.

I did an insurance quote with and without black boxes and the price was exactly the same to the penny. I wonder how long until they change that.
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Rogue_Shadow
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PostPosted: 07:38 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Opt out
/ Thread
Laughing
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Robby
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PostPosted: 07:44 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in two minds about this, even starting from the position that the newpaper article is a newspaper article, and shouldn't be taken as a work of fact.

On the one hand, if we want to get towards the future utopian road system that allows driverless cars, smart GPS that tells you where other cars are or what's around the blind corner, and some kind of activity logging to hit back against crash-for-cash scams and the like, vehicles will have to be fitted with some sort of tracker or transponder. To get towards utopia these would need to be installed and managed with privacy and safety as the headline concerns. My safety I mean real safety, not whatever BRAKE is getting worked up about this week.

On the other hand, this is an easy back door into road charging, easy speeding tickets, and removing all fun from driving or riding.

I do expect the use of black boxes to increase. It does work for young drivers, particularly when the black box connects to the smartphone app and they can compete for a high score.

I expect that in reality, many insurers will require the use of a black box, but that means that many insurers will also make their money by offering non black box policies. It may end up being another specialist offering from Adrian Flux.

End result for me, I would probably end up with a slightly cheaper black box policy on the car, and a slightly more expensive untracked policy on the bike. The costs would balance each other out.
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 08:51 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

orac wrote:
looks like i will be sticking with driving old buckets to help reduce the risk of them forcing the issue on me...

Older machinery might not be able to be retro fitted with black box but there's stuff like the Aviva Drive phone app.

As said above there may be specialist deals if bike so old no black box, like the insurance deals for vintage motorcycles. Or they'll just charge you lots and lots so it's not worth keeping older machines on the road as cannot afford to insure anymore. I happen to like older machinery.

Rogerborg wrote:
...Anyway, the elephant in the woodpile is this:
TFA wrote:
The technology will soon be fitted in new cars as standard. Under EU regulations, all new cars will need black box-style technology, known as eCall, from October 2015, to help emergency services find crashed vehicles.

So speaks the EU. Now I wonder what lobby group stands to get some financial gain safety kudos over that. Brown envelopes changing hands I suspect.

Rogerborg wrote:
...On topic, has anyone yet seen an insurer offering or requiring spychips on bikes?

Funilly enough, no. However, I expect some rip off enterprising insurance company will suggest something like the Aviva Drive phone app for bikers.

BTW if you look into Aviva Drive app IMO it's not that good a deal. Only get the maximum 20% is your insurance is over £400 (which ok, most under 25s will probably be). The insurance has to be fully comprehensive as well. So that's only saving you £80. A tank of petrol would cost more than that.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course any company that forces black boxes on customers will soon see those customers move to a company that dousent. I cant see it all hapening in any way that would have a major effect unless actual legislation made black boxes compulsory.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you play with the Aviva phone app without taking out insurance. Who can get the worse score while riding their bike. Mr. Green
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boozehawk wrote:
Of course any company that forces black boxes on customers will soon see those customers move to a company that dousent. I cant see it all hapening in any way that would have a major effect unless actual legislation made black boxes compulsory.


Which every government would love to do. Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boozehawk wrote:
Of course any company that forces black boxes on customers will soon see those customers move to a company that dousent. I cant see it all hapening in any way that would have a major effect unless actual legislation made black boxes compulsory.

As long as there's real competition in the industry, and it doesn't operate as a de facto cartel.

Run by the Lizard People, of course.
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Snorty
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thin end of the wedge appears again...

Viva la revolution, right?
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Boozehawk wrote:
Of course any company that forces black boxes on customers will soon see those customers move to a company that dousent. I cant see it all hapening in any way that would have a major effect unless actual legislation made black boxes compulsory.

As long as there's real competition in the industry, and it doesn't operate as a de facto cartel.

Run by the Lizard People, of course.


Its not conspiracy by the Lizard People we need to worry about. Its the conspiracy theories the Lizard People have about us we should be concerned about.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 20 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
What they wank over is Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization.

I think that depends on the investor and the region. I'd argue that operating income rather than EBITDA is what they should wank over, at least for a manufacturing company. Depreciation is not an imaginary accounting item, it's a real operating cost and I think it deserves to viewed as such. Not that EBITDA is not sometimes useful.

That minor quibble aside, if you read the financial web sites, especially those that are US-centric, earnings per share is still the metric that dominates reporting. "Dell came in two cents short of consensus", "GOOG beat EPS expectations by $0.27" and so on. Given how easy it is to manipulate EPS, it's absurd to be paying so much attention to this one figure. You see some companies posting quarter after quarter of EPS for years on end. That just has to be manipulation.

But we digress.
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