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Mr. Honda, where's my new Pan European?

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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 17:54 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Mr. Honda, where's my new Pan European? Reply with quote

Original ST1100 launched in 1990, discontinued in 2002, so 12 years.
The replacement ST1300 launched 2002 and still going after 12 years.
So where's the replacement for the ST1300?

Can I ask as it's a Pan European it's designed like the original in and for Europe (and I guess USA with their weird emissions laws). That way stand a chance of seeing the dash readouts and reach the switchgear.

The competition have upped their game. Unless you come up with something sooner rather than later I just might get that Triumph tourer Very Happy
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if I was going to go down that road it would have to be:

https://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/rasherzzr/Alps%202010/01_02_Cemetary.jpg

That said. Seems there is a 2014 model

https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/offers/st1300/
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 18:26 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:

That said. Seems there is a 2014 model

https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/offers/st1300/

2014 ST1300 same as the years before it. No doubt small tweaks and/or colour changes, as they do.

I'm talking about a new model, still v4 I hope.

Looked at the gtr1400. Reviews sadly not that good.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is why I would go for the ZZR1400.

I think the time of bikes like the Pan and the smaller one the Dullsville are going to be consigned to history. Especially with the advent of more sport oriented touring bike. No more pan, instead we see a return of the VFR800 to go along side their massive VFR1200. Yami with the FJR, quack with the GTR and the better ZZR. These are the ones that will stay around while the pan will go.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing I have ridden, and there have been a lot, has come close to suiting the daily long distance rides like an 1100 pan euro, if i came into a lot of money, a rebuilt 1100 would be where the money goes for my long distance bike.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
That is why I would go for the ZZR1400.

I think the time of bikes like the Pan and the smaller one the Dullsville are going to be consigned to history. Especially with the advent of more sport oriented touring bike. No more pan, instead we see a return of the VFR800 to go along side their massive VFR1200. Yami with the FJR, quack with the GTR and the better ZZR. These are the ones that will stay around while the pan will go.


On what do you base these beliefs?
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
pinkyfloyd wrote:
That is why I would go for the ZZR1400.

I think the time of bikes like the Pan and the smaller one the Dullsville are going to be consigned to history. Especially with the advent of more sport oriented touring bike. No more pan, instead we see a return of the VFR800 to go along side their massive VFR1200. Yami with the FJR, quack with the GTR and the better ZZR. These are the ones that will stay around while the pan will go.


On what do you base these beliefs?


On the simple fact that the pan has not been re released in many years and the Dullsville is discontinued completely. Last time Honda brought out a +1000cc touring bike it was the VFR revamp. The 650 Deauville, as said, discontinued and we have had a relaunch of the VFR800.

The trend seems to be heading towards the more sport looking/styled touring bikes with all manufacturers. Even the BMW version of the Pan, the RT1200 has gone been given a much more sportier looking make over.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
sickpup wrote:

On what do you base these beliefs?


On the simple fact that the pan has not been re released in many years and the Dullsville is discontinued completely. Last time Honda brought out a +1000cc touring bike it was the VFR revamp. The 650 Deauville, as said, discontinued and we have had a relaunch of the VFR800.

The trend seems to be heading towards the more sport looking/styled touring bikes with all manufacturers. Even the BMW version of the Pan, the RT1200 has gone been given a much more sportier looking make over.


And what's happened to affordable bikes with shaft drive, which should be the obvious choice of the long distance user?

A full spec VFR1200 is getting on for £14K, which isn't affordable for a lot of people.

On the other hand, a VFR800 Crossrunner is a much better price (especially used) but it's got a high maintenance, high cost chain drive.

There was a thread on here recently, about that thing that seems to be a development of the DN-01, but that's back to a chain again, not even a belt.

Either the manufacturers are trying to dictate the market, or, as you've observed, the market doesn't want proper touring orientated bikes.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
On the simple fact that the pan has not been re released in many years and the Dullsville is discontinued completely. Last time Honda brought out a +1000cc touring bike it was the VFR revamp. The 650 Deauville, as said, discontinued and we have had a relaunch of the VFR800.

The trend seems to be heading towards the more sport looking/styled touring bikes with all manufacturers. Even the BMW version of the Pan, the RT1200 has gone been given a much more sportier looking make over.


The 650 Deauville was discontinued years ago and replaced with the 700.

I suggest you take a look at used prices of Deauvilles and Pan's, they are surprisingly high and have been rising for the last 2 years.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 23 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please explain to a noob, why the ZX1400 makes for a better tourer with luggage than the GTR1400, which again to someone of no experience I would assume would be the better bike?

And talk to me about how the VFR1200 fits into the model line up. First is it great or is it shit? And secondly is it more like a new ST1300 or more like a new Blackbird in the way it performs and feels to ride?
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evoboy
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Please explain to a noob, why the ZX1400 makes for a better tourer with luggage than the GTR1400, which again to someone of no experience I would assume would be the better bike?

And talk to me about how the VFR1200 fits into the model line up. First is it great or is it shit? And secondly is it more like a new ST1300 or more like a new Blackbird in the way it performs and feels to ride?


VFR is more 'bird than Pan.

GTR is a better touring bike than the ZZR14.
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ppeaster
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PostPosted: 06:25 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tested Pan and VFR1200 recently and they are worlds apart. VFR is a tall bike, sporty riding position, small tank, fairly high pegs, and is pretty quick.

The Pan was Huge... Laid back riding position, armchair seat, low centre of gravity, felt like I could ride it all day. It was not particulaly quick and didnt't handle that well.

There is no way the VFR1200 is Honda's answer to the Trophy, r1200rt, or k1600gt. So i agree with OP, hope Honda unveil a new Pan soon!
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PostPosted: 06:31 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honda need to introduce a shaft drive to their NC750 range of bikes. Let's face it, no-one would buy one of those for any other reason than commuting, so a shaft seems ideal.
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spnorm
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PostPosted: 06:48 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ZZR1400 is far too hard on the wrists for many riders. I tried one in 2006 and bought a K1200S instead.

The R1200RT was hard to beat for two-up touring. It carries its payload really well, so can still destroy chicken strips fully loaded. Its only downside was it was tyre sensitive and a bit wheezy fully loaded. The new LC engine will cure that issue.
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spnorm
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PostPosted: 06:56 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
And what's happened to affordable bikes with shaft drive, which should be the obvious choice of the long distance user?

On the other hand, a VFR800 Crossrunner is a much better price (especially used) but it's got a high maintenance, high cost chain drive.

There was a thread on here recently, about that thing that seems to be a development of the DN-01, but that's back to a chain again, not even a belt.

Either the manufacturers are trying to dictate the market, or, as you've observed, the market doesn't want proper touring orientated bikes.


Shaft drives are less fuel efficient (higher frictional losses) and more expensive to manufacture. Granted they are less hassle from a maintenance perspective, but are expensive to repair/refurbish. BMW's, VFR1200's and Triumph Tiger 1200's all seem to be having shaft drive issues.

My VFR800 with Scottoiler used to go through a £130 X-ring chain and sprocket set every 30k miles, so probably had a lower whole life cost.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:25 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats this shaft drive issues for the Triumphs?

I have 2 and I have not had any notice from the dealers or Triumph about the shaft drive and Triumph have informed me about every other issue my bikes have had.

As for the OP, I have had Goldwings, Pans, the Trophy, and ridden a GTR. I love shaft drives. On bikes with 100+ bhp do you really think you are going to notice the difference of losing a few HP to the transmission.

Plus I can't be arsed with having to clean chain lube off the panniers before walking into a hotel with them. Cool
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 08:08 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

The 650 Deauville was discontinued years ago and replaced with the 700.
.


You're right, my bad. That said, no Dauville this year according to the Honda website. It's not on their list of models to buy.

I stand by belief that those pans etc will be phased out. It is sad because I like them I just do not feel the market for them will be big enough to continue them with the other options in and around the same price.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 24 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you rate the ZZR higher for a good touring bike with luggage than the GTR though? I think the GTR is a pretty cool bike both looks and feature wise, but have no idea how comfortable it is or how it feels after a long day in the saddle?

The ZZR I have always believed to be a bit of an irrelevance bike much like the GSX1300R, as it does not look that comfortable, and the running costs fuel/tyre's and maybe chain and brake pad wear rate, don't stack up very well for most people.

I do see a bloke commute to and from a building site from time to time on a ZZR14, and he often stops at Tesco express to pick up shopping. But with no luggage fitted as std, and pretty poor mpg, I can't think of many bikes less suitable as daily commuters?
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