G&C Motorcycles Preston UPDATE: Bike died

[sabian92]

Evening BCF,

Not long got back from visiting my brother and attempting to troubleshoot his bike. He's got a 1992 GPZ500 that he's had about 4 weeks but isn't allowed to ride yet (not long turned 19, he's got his mod 2 tomorrow), and has been itching to ride it since he was taken pillion on it before he bought it and brought it home.

2 weeks ago the clutch stopped working. Bike would start in neutral, pull the clutch in and select first and it'd jerk forward and stall every time without fail. We had the tank off, various bits of bodywork, adjusted the clutch cable, until I noticed that he had a little window to have a gander at his oil (and honestly, I wouldn't have noticed had my instructor not pointed it out when I was noseying at his new GXSR1200), only to notice it was a little too clear. So clear in fact, it looked like it was empty. he unscrewed the filler cap, scraped his finger around and it was dry. Not even a thin coating of oil, it was drier than a nun's gash.

Googled how much oil it took, nipped home and gave him the 4 litres of 10W40 I had left and it took the whole lot, so it was clearly pretty fucking empty. Screwed the filler cap back on, started it up, gave it 5 minutes to warm the oil through, and waddya know... it goes into gear and he rides away.

It's his first big bike (and we're both as handy with a spanner as a corpse) and we didn't have a Haynes but still, what sort of dealer doesn't put oil in a bike or at least check there's oil in it when they take it to sell? To be fair the dealer fobbed him off by lying to him about the state of the bottom fairing as it's cracked to buggery anyway, but he was too naive to check.

Lesson learned for him, always check there's oil in!

Serious question though, it's been ridden once and run a few times without oil - what sort of damage could be lurking in there? I advised him to change the oil ASAP as it looked pretty filthy once we'd filled it up.

He bought it from G&C Motorcycles in Preston - Annsdale, Coote Lane, Whitestake, Preston, PR4 4LJ.

Avoid these utter spackers.

[Shinigami]

ran without oil














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Current: Honda City Fly CLR125 2003 Honda CB600F Hornet 2008 Yamaha FZ6 S2 + 1991 Kawasaki GPZ500
"Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense.

[beardface]

They teach you how to check oil on cbt and das ffs

You should of checked it in the shop tbf.

[Alex A]

I've never done any business with them but it's fairly local and I have stopped by to take a look at bikes on a few of occasions. Their bikes tend to be very tatty (almost without exception) and it probably doesn't help that they're crammed very tightly together in a fairly modest shed / 'workshop'. I suspect that they buy the cheapest trade stuff going from main and secondary dealers and try to flog it at 'decent' bike prices. Nothing particularly wrong with that but the setup didn't inspire confidence, and your story doesn't surprise me. I'd probably return it as you don't know how much damage might have been caused running it dry, and it's extremely neglectful of them to sell it without any oil in it (unless it was advertised as spares/repairs).

[sabian92]

I reckon it was a case of "noob biker syndrome" where he was taken by it and overlooked the obvious things he should have looked for. He did his CBT nearly a year ago and as far as I know wasn't shown it on his A2 lessons (but I agree it's not an excuse). I wasn't with him when he bought it (and to be honest I'm glad he's not able to ride it as it'd have been a lot more expensive had he been riding it around).

Still, what sort of damage could he have lurking for him? It's only done 15 miles since its MOT in August so hopefully not much if any.

Still doesn't excuse the dealer flogging a bike without oil in it though.

[Alex A]

You could drain the oil again and see if there's any metal swarf? Don't forget to put it back in again!.

He might struggle to return it but maybe worth a try, especially if it's not running right. I presume it was fairly cheap?

[sabian92]

[Rogerborg]

Ah, another "peace of mind" purchase from a dealer.

I'd expect you've got the square root of sod all chance of returning it because there might be something wrong with it.

If there's actually something wrong with it, something that another garage could identify and quote for repairing, then you might be on to something. Is there?

Expect a fair amount of clutch basket rattle from it. Does it quieten down at all when you pull the clutch in?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[stinkwheel]

I have a strong suspicion you have overfilled the sump on that bike and you should ride it no further until you have checked because it could cause severe and permanant damage to the engine.

Couple of points to explain why.

The first of these is that a GPZ500 has a red, low oil pressure warning light on the dash. It ought to come on with the ignition and turn off when the oil pressure forces the switch back out (ie. as soon as it turns over, one engine revolution is normally sufficient).

If was so low it took 4l of oil, the oil light would 100% definately stay on. So either the oil pressure light is broken OR it was staying on and you ignored it OR (my personal suspicion) there was sufficient oil to give a head of pressure.

I wouldn't expect to be able to reach oil with my finger through the filler cap on that bike and I have long fingers. If you can now, the sump is too full.

A GPZ500 engine holds 3.8 litres of oil from TOTALLY empty. By totally empty, I mean a freshly rebuilt engine which has been degreased then reassembled. It would hold less if there was some oil hanging about. This is from experience of having stripped one to the crank then rebuilt it and having enough oil left in a 4l drum for topping up. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't expect it to even take as much as 3.5l and that would be with a filter change.

So. My suggestion. First check the oil light comes on with the ignition and goes out as soon as you push the starter button. I'd switch it off as soon as you see this happen at this point.

Next get the bike level and on the mainstand and double check the top of the oil level is visible between the lines on the sight glass with the engine off because I strongly suspect you have over filled it. If nothing else, 4 litres seems like way too much oil.

You can usually get an open spanner on the sump bolt or a socket and extension bar if you gently push the header over to one side slightly. Failing that, you ought to be able to (carefully and slightly) loosen the header and exhaust clamps and move it all slightly one way or the other.

A lack of oil would not make it stall in gear. Not immediately anyway, a motorcycle clutch will work for a fair while dry before it starts burning plates, then it would tend to slip and smoke if anything (I have deliberately run the primary/clutch dry when drag racing the Enfield before). The EX500 engines are well known for the clutch plates sticking when parked up for a while though.

If it had run low on oil, I'd expect the main bearings and cam surface to be the first to suffer. The latter is reasonably easy to visually check but does involve draining down the coolant and replacing a couple of o-rings. Checking the mains is more toruble than the bike is worth.

If it had been ridden 15 miles while being underfilled by 4 litres, it would have died. I'm sure of it.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[iooi]

4ltrs....

That is a lot for a bike.

I would get a manual and check just how much should be in there.....
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[J4mes]

Oh my you're gonna look like an almighty wanker if Stinkster is right!!

[sabian92]

[groovylee]

[Alex A]

[Joncrete Cungle]

If your brother needs a honest bike mechanic. The only ones in the Preston area I trust and use myself are Dave Helm on the docks and John Carr up at Garstang.

[Kickstart]

[stinkwheel]

I'm still interested in the oil pressure light.

Is it working? Was it staying on? It turns off when the pressurised oil feed from the pump forces a spring-loaded switch out. It's bright, red and pretty intrusive on the dash, I'd expect someone who was sat on their new bike with the engine running to wonder what it is and why it's lit.

If it was going out when the bike was fired up, there was probably sufficient oil pressure to feed the cams and mains.

If the sight glass was full of white mayonaise, how did you know how much oil to put in?
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[sabian92]

[Quornholio]

My old chap bought a bike from them, and had no problems at all with it. Yes, they're tatty, but you're not paying 2014 R1 prices are you?
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[mailee]

My mate bought a Daytona from them. It took a lot of starting when we went to look at it but assumed this was being stood a long time. It continued to be a hit and miss starter all the time he owned it and he couldn't trust it. It ended up not starting at all and he sold it for spares. Not a happy lad at all.

[TUG]

I live near Preston, my bike is currently off the road (same engine as yours) but if you still have it in a few weeks and want it looking at let me know and I could come take a look. PM me if you want a hand.
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Haz ER-5, innit!

[sabian92]

[chris-red]

[Quornholio]

[chris-red]