Crash advice...

Karlbristol · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 02 May 2014 Karma :

Bear with me this is a Tef length post Laughing

I love my bike to bits and it's had money and love thrown at it in bundles (normally as I lurk on this forum and get ideas on improvements!) so I'm a little gutted by what I'm going to write next...

I always expected that I was going to have a proper "off" at some stage as I'm on my first big bike and although I'm an advanced driver I'm relatively new to biking. Unfortunately my worst fears were realised at 21:15 last night.... To really rub salt in the wound my R&G crash bungs are in the post to me Sad

Anyway rewind to last night
Last night I was going around a corner that I know well and went through a patch of diesel. There were roadworks on meaning the road went down to one lane, and I had a car behind me so I had no choice other then go through it. I was probably travelling at circa 20mph at this point. The front end stayed planted but the rear end fish tailed terribly and lost all grip. As a result I put some throttle on (only a bit) to try to get the bike as upright as possible and regain stability, unfortunately this didn't work and the bike flipped violently on its left hand side, dumped me to the ground and then slid down the road approximately 20 foot until it hit a large raised pavement kerb. I did my fair share of sliding but stupidly jumped up pretty quickly to try and save the bike.. I was devastated.

I've just got out of hospital and come home with a variety of injuries that puts me out of action for quite some time (mainly shoulder based) but I'm more concerned about the bike. Everything on the LHS needs replacing due to either being snapped, sheared or scratched significantly. Joys. It won't start at all but I'm presuming its due to some form of tilt sensor/trip switch.

I'm sure I will have some questions regarding how to fix the damage but for the time being I was after some advice on the accident itself.

What did I do wrong? (Besides crashing the bike or riding through diesel Laughing

)
How can you correct from fishtailing due to diesel or similar?
When it started to go I tried to give it a bit of throttle thinking that this would bring the bike more upright and thus regain the stability of the bike due to the centrifugal forces. Is this right or did I make the situation worse?

I've only been riding daily for a year and had a full license for a relatively short time. I appreciate that I still have a lot to learn and frustratingly I was actually riding sensibly and relatively slowly when this happened. I'd like to learn from this experience to prevent a similar one in the future.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance Thumbs Up

Oh and the compulsory paint diagram will be worked on shortly when I'm up to it...
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Currently riding: GSX650
Currently own but rarely drive: Boring family '12 plate VRS Octavia estate

Hokum · Spanner Monkey Joined: 26 Apr 2012 Karma :

I'd treat it like any other rear wheel skid, and try and keep the bike as straight as possible, I'd also cut the throttle and ride it out as it slows down.
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Islander · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

covent.gardens · World Clap Champion Joined: 09 Jun 2012 Karma :

I wouldn't have accelerated for a rear wheel skid. I can't confidently explain why. I just know I wouldn't have.

I think it's because if you are losing grip on the rear wheel, then any action (braking or accelerating) is usually only going to result in less grip and make things worse. My instinct would have been to pull in the clutch and coast, which is probably better than what you did, but still not the ideal thing to do.

Dalemac · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Karma :

It happens to all of us.

I have so far avoided coming off from a rear end slide, which probably means on the way home from work tonight i will have one that puts me on the floor.

I have always though that whacking the throttle on or off is a bad idea.

If the rear is sliding, more power will prolong the slide, if and when it grips again, the angle to return the bike to an upright position is larger than it would have been, resulting in a bigger high-side than it would have been.

On the other hand, snapping the throttle closed may shorten the slide, but will still cause a violent tank slapper.

I have always made a minimal roll of of the throttle if the rear end has slid. probably just a couple of degrees rotation though. Seems to have worked so far (touch wood).

If i spot diesel on the road that is unavoidable (very rarely it is unavoidable) i'll always roll off completely and straighten the bike up and riding through as little of it as possible, without touching the brakes. But then again, i have a v-twin with a ridiculous amount of engine braking.

Also it really pisses me off how people can't seem to fuel their cars/vans/lorries with diesel. If diesel is coming from the overflow pipe, they are losing money and potentially causing accidents.
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~~YBR125~~ -> GPZ500S -> SL1000

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

1, You see diesel, get completely off the throttle.
2, Wheel Spins why the fuck would you give it more gas? Wheel is spinning because the limit of get has been exceeded, putting more power threw it is worst thing you can do.

Had it been me and I saw the diesel. I would have put the bike as upright as possible pulled in the clutch and coasted over it.

That way you are asking the least from the tyres and the chances of loosing grip is slim.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

baggylastard · Nova Slayer Joined: 18 Jul 2012 Karma :

worst thing to do is come off the throttle or clutch in, keep everything the same and usually everything is fine, the bike will sort itself out.
adding a fistful more throttle is just likely to step the back our further.

Dalemac · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Karma :

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Dalemac · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Karma :

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Dalemac · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Oct 2006 Karma :

Highwayman · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 17 Nov 2013 Karma :

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

The OP saw the fuel in advance any suspension movement will be long done before he hit it. Cutting drive like means the bike will roll and there will be the least amount forces acting through the tire possible. Having any throttle on when the grip level changes means the wheel is more likely to break traction and if it does being on the throttle will make the wheel to spin making the problem worse as the lack of grip will instantly put less load on the engine causing it to rev higher.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

UnknownStuntm... · World Chat Champion Joined: 13 Sep 2007 Karma :

Not seen anyone mention this above, so my two pennies are:

Any odd looking surface, I'm up on my toes. Bum off the seat means you can feel, absorb and react to inputs from the bike.

I'm not saying it would have saved that though. Diesel should be banned from the road. Laughing

chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

Karlbristol · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 02 May 2014 Karma :

Thank you all for the responses and advice it is appreciated Thumbs Up

It's a relatively tight corner and as I was advancing through it I saw the diesel but didn't have loads of time to react/think about the situation. In hindsight maybe going a bit slower than 20mph could have helped. When I saw it I hoped that luck would see me though if I'm being completely honest.

I initially maintained the same revs as I was worried about dropping them off mid corner (I was in second gear IIRC). As I rode through the diesel it felt like the rear end was weaving/fish tailing and that I was going to loose it to the right. Instinctively I revved higher.

In hindsight and thinking logically about it as most of you have said I probably should have dropped the revs instead of increasing them. The only thing that popped into my head whilst I was panicking is that when I used to loose balance doing U-turns and I was taught to blip the revs so that the gyroscopic effect lifted the bike upright. It clearly didn't work well on this occasion Laughing

So the general consensus is to drop the revs off or right down and try to coast through?

The resurfacing works definitely didn't help things.

The crash was an odd experience of taking an age but being done in a flash. It's hard to explain. Anyway - I officially hate diesel!!
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Currently riding: GSX650
Currently own but rarely drive: Boring family '12 plate VRS Octavia estate

Crazy-Duck · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 05 Mar 2013 Karma :

nowhere.elysium · The Pork Lord Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Karma :

Crazy-Duck · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 05 Mar 2013 Karma :

Meh, never was very good at spelling and even worse when in a rush to leave work.
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Fisty · Super Spammer Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Karma :

If you need any help fixing it I am in Bristol, a few members can vouch for my spannering skills.
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