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How hard can i rev my new bike?

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Dan125
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: How hard can i rev my new bike? Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I have been riding a scooter for the last 3 months, and have never rode a geared bike until yesterday, so please forgive my noobness
So, few questions.. how high can i rev my bike? I bought it new and was told not to go over 5000 for the first 300 miles, but it seems really slow, and even at these revs it makes alot more noise than the scooter, and to me it sounds like I'm over revving it, is this normal? (it's a cbf125)
After its 'broken in' what kind of revs should i be giving it? Will it sound less stressed at higher revs? What happens if I redline it?
Anyway I've got plenty more questions, but I think that's probably enough for now Smile
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow the break in procedure properly - 300 miles is a couple of days riding, no biggie. It will be slow, because it's a 125.

When it's run in, give it all of its revs. No need to hold back. That doesn't mean bouncing it off the limiter for giggles, nor sitting on the or near the limiter for extended periods either, which won't do it a lot of good of course. But that's down to how long do you want it to last, really.

You'll get used to the noises.



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FlightRisk
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with above.

Add to that; if it was me I wouldn't rev it hard until after it's had it's first oil change.

Actually wasn't there a thread around here about new CBFs with hardly any oil in them? You could do worse than popping on the centre stand and checking the oil level. Good habit to get into checking every so often anyway.
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, it appears they do like to use some oil..... just like they do like a bit of flux (rust)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counterpoint: I would ride it hard, and change the oil at 20 and about 200 miles, as well as checking it regularly. If anything's going to go bang, have it go bang early.

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arry
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Counterpoint: I would ride it hard, and change the oil at 20 and about 200 miles, as well as checking it regularly. If anything's going to go bang, have it go bang early.


I'm aware the hard break in procedure recommended by some tuners. It goes something like 'engines broken in hard produce more power'.

Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k use (car, might add for clarity) and having spent time around someone that builds well specced engines, it's not something I'd endorse. Of course there's a lot of factors, but the wear to bores and ovalling of rods was a symptom that kept cropping up.
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Barnoe
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deffo check the oil!!! dont assume the dealer filled it up.
I found out that i was running on half of what it should had Rolling Eyes

riding below 5000 is a bit low, just dont redline it or like already said ride at high revs for long periods.

around town, you can keep the revs quite low easily.

so stick to towns for a week or 2 Smile

I ride over the tops at weekend and you will find your at high revs a lot! (the down side of 125s)
To get up some hills you have no choice but to drop a gear and ride at higher revs sometimes.
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used the ride it hard technique with my msx which has a similar engine. Changed oil at 75, 200 and 400 miles. Revved to the redline within 5 minutes of leaving the dealer.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k

An important consideration that I didn't spell out: how many owners buy a new 125 and keep it for 10K let alone 30?
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k

An important consideration that I didn't spell out: how many owners buy a new 125 and keep it for 10K let alone 30?


Quite. It was the reason I signposted (but then hid it with branches of a tree) the qualification of we're talking car, not bike, engines. 30k on a car engine is to all intents and purposes 1/5th of their expected life at a guess.

I have a girlie friend with a CBF showing a genuine 40,000 + miles on the clock. It's been well looked after by a commuter type chap its whole life. I guess that shows it's at least possible to get them to reasonably high mileages when cared for
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: How hard can i rev my new bike? Reply with quote

Dan125 wrote:

So, few questions.. how high can i rev my bike? I bought it new and was told not to go over 5000 for the first 300 miles, but it seems really slow, and even at these revs it makes alot more noise than the scooter



Your scooter has an elf held captive somewhere in the drivetrain that changes gears for you, this is why your scooter doesn't rev too high as the elf is doing his job.

Quote:
and to me it sounds like I'm over revving it, is this normal? (it's a cbf125)



The engine is bigger and more exposed, you can hear it better, simple as that. I had the same thing when I switched from a 125 to a 600, bought ear-plugs and everything's happy

Quote:

After its 'broken in' what kind of revs should i be giving it? Will it sound less stressed at higher revs? What happens if I redline it?


However many revs it needs

Probably still sound stressed, it's a small engine, it's designed for it

POWARRRRRRRR - no, seriously it's fine to take an engine to the red-line, don't hold it there if you don't have to (thats why you have a gear box) and don't push it far into the redline but don't be scared to let the thing rev, it wants to.
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notbike
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 17 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the correct way is to ride normally, dont hold at redline but dont be scared to rev it, and do plenty of oil changes?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 07:05 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:


Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k use (car, might add for clarity) and having spent time around someone that builds well specced engines, it's not something I'd endorse. Of course there's a lot of factors, but the wear to bores and ovalling of rods was a symptom that kept cropping up.


What sort of car engines does your friend build and what kinds of specs?

The reason I ask is that it's a whole different can of worms when your building an engine that is far from standard spec internally with different parts and spec of parts to what would be fitted by the OEM.

Also there are quite a few people with hard used competition car engines, where a 30k lifespan with decent performance, good compression and valve sealing would be seen a very good lifespan.

Then there is the factor that many people who have high performance engine builds done, are going to push the engine very hard after spending a lot of money on horsepower, and they may abuse the engine which is different, but still more than likely.

Lastly I've seen and heard of many non std performance engine builds, where premature wear or even failure has occurred, and it's often not due to how the owner treats it, but that the engine was not very expertly built in the first place.

Engine's with badly scuffed expensive forged pistons for example, when the correct piston/bore clearance was not specified, which is often quite different to what is needed with cast pistons on an OEM Factory build, which despite mass production can sadly be far more in tolerance than a badly built performance engine.
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Dan125
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, well thanks for all the advice everyone.
I was unaware that there was an elf inside my scooter lol, hope he's happy with his new owner Smile
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Stil
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Monkey wrote:
Used the ride it hard technique with my msx which has a similar engine. Changed oil at 75, 200 and 400 miles. Revved to the redline within 5 minutes of leaving the dealer.


Why is it you changed the oil so regularly? Is it just because its a new bike, how often should you change the oil on a broken in bike?
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stil wrote:
how often should you change the oil on a broken in bike?


Depends on the bike. The user manual will tell you, if you don't have one, look online.

When breaking a new bike in, you will need to change the oil at a much earlier interval than usual, due to the fact that you'll get more crap in the oil as you are wearing the engine in.

My bike, for example, required its first oil change at 600 miles. After that, its regular change is 1,800 miles but, as I said, it depends on the bike.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stil wrote:
Northern Monkey wrote:
Used the ride it hard technique with my msx which has a similar engine. Changed oil at 75, 200 and 400 miles. Revved to the redline within 5 minutes of leaving the dealer.


Why is it you changed the oil so regularly? Is it just because its a new bike, how often should you change the oil on a broken in bike?


Cast components aren't perfect and as components wear in against each other small shavings of metal can occur and get flushed to the bottom of the engine by the oil, we want rid of these.

Once running in has been done you revert to the manufacturers handbook - some people doing lots of motorway running change oil more often as the engine on a smaller bike gets worked hard on the Mway but handbook is a good default
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rag from warm, regular oil changes, engine was likely run very hard on the bench anyway.
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 18 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stil wrote:
Northern Monkey wrote:
Used the ride it hard technique with my msx which has a similar engine. Changed oil at 75, 200 and 400 miles. Revved to the redline within 5 minutes of leaving the dealer.


Why is it you changed the oil so regularly? Is it just because its a new bike, how often should you change the oil on a broken in bike?


By forcing the running in process to occur more quickly, by riding it hard, the wear which would occur normally over the entire running in process occurs quickly, so the oil needs to be changed more quickly

I used cheap shit asda 10w40 at the 75 and 200 changes, and a fully synthetic oil at 400, as there were no noticeable metal deposits when I dropped the oil at 400 miles

As it's a 125 without oil filter, I'll took it for its first service at 800 miles and I'll change the oil every 600 -800 miles. If it was a larger engine with proper oil filter, I'd just use the manufacturer recommendations after 1000 miles
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 20 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meef wrote:
So the correct way is to ride normally, dont hold at redline but dont be scared to rev it, and do plenty of oil changes?


Do whatever is detailed in the manual.
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P.
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 20 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

janner_10 wrote:
Meef wrote:
So the correct way is to ride normally, dont hold at redline but dont be scared to rev it, and do plenty of oil changes?


Do whatever is detailed in the manual.


If he wants to.

As NM above said... hard run in is fine. I happily went with that method, as have others.

Do you stick to everything someone has written down?
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 20 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be more comfortable with following the user manual than strangers opinions on the internet.

especially running a new bike, but each to his own.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 20 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
arry wrote:


Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k use (car, might add for clarity) and having spent time around someone that builds well specced engines, it's not something I'd endorse. Of course there's a lot of factors, but the wear to bores and ovalling of rods was a symptom that kept cropping up.


What sort of car engines does your friend build and what kinds of specs?

The reason I ask is that it's a whole different can of worms when your building an engine that is far from standard spec internally with different parts and spec of parts to what would be fitted by the OEM.

Also there are quite a few people with hard used competition car engines, where a 30k lifespan with decent performance, good compression and valve sealing would be seen a very good lifespan.

Then there is the factor that many people who have high performance engine builds done, are going to push the engine very hard after spending a lot of money on horsepower, and they may abuse the engine which is different, but still more than likely.

Lastly I've seen and heard of many non std performance engine builds, where premature wear or even failure has occurred, and it's often not due to how the owner treats it, but that the engine was not very expertly built in the first place.

Engine's with badly scuffed expensive forged pistons for example, when the correct piston/bore clearance was not specified, which is often quite different to what is needed with cast pistons on an OEM Factory build, which despite mass production can sadly be far more in tolerance than a badly built performance engine.


Not performance vehicle related, but there's nothing worse than acquiring a diesel engined vehicle that's been driven slowly by the first owner.
When I used to drive lorries for a rather large courier firm you could always tell the waggons that had been broken in by the old boys, they were totally gutless. The ones that the younger crew had broken in went like shit off a shovel. (No idea what it did for the life of the engines though, when you've got a hectic schedule and a workshop crew of five or six blokes at the depot, it's their problem! Wink )

EDIT: Sorry, back on topic... I ran in my ex-wife's CB125 and ER-5 for her, ignored the manual, ran as I normally would and changed the oil very frequently (just to give you some idea of 'frequently', I change oil between 3 and 4 thousand miles as a matter of course of all my machines, so much, much shorter intervals!!). She had the 125 for two years and the 500 for four, both ran perfectly well (or at least...as well as those models could ever be expected to Wink ).
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Last edited by mentalboy on 20:15 - 20 Sep 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 20 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k

An important consideration that I didn't spell out: how many owners buy a new 125 and keep it for 10K let alone 30?


How many 2Ts have been ridden for 10k without someone forgetting to fill up the 2T oil?
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Toccs
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 24 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
arry wrote:
Having seen a few engines done the hard way after 30k

An important consideration that I didn't spell out: how many owners buy a new 125 and keep it for 10K let alone 30?


Shamefully i've been on my 125 for 8 years and bought it new. Roughtly 38000 clocked. *Holds head in shame*
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