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"Best" Helmet - and Kevlar Jeans...

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Deso27
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: "Best" Helmet - and Kevlar Jeans... Reply with quote

Ok post 2 - (after passing Mod 1 Friday)
When I get my own helmet - I want to get the best I can...I am sure there will be a lot of opinions - but looking for some/any strings do's and don'ts...Will be getting some for of cruiser bike - ie I am not a speed demon...and looking at everything open face, closed and flip (schuberth seems to continually crop up) - any recommendations appreciated...

Kevlar jeans - like the idea as opposed to leathers - and again anyone who has experienced the good or the bad please do offer up any advice...

Thank you guys/gals...
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Helmets, buy the one that fits you best. /thread.
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Nash GT
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going to spend half decent money on any gear put it on a helmet, get a good reputable brand and make sure is a good comfortable fit.

I'm not keen on open faced helmets but then again that's personal taste
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Helmets, buy the one that fits you best. /thread.


This.
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notbike
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use this when you're buying a helmet. inb4 helmets a helmet.

https://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

Regardless how much difference it makes, I'd rather it have 5 stars than 1, just for my peace of mind if anything else. Thumbs Up


Edit: Fuuuuu MC beat me to it Laughing
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meef wrote:
Use this when you're buying a helmet. inb4 helmets a helmet.

https://sharp.direct.gov.uk/

Regardless how much difference it makes, I'd rather it have 5 stars than 1, just for my peace of mind if anything else. Thumbs Up


Edit: Fuuuuu MC beat me to it Laughing


On the flip side I'd rather have a 1 star that fits correctly than a 5 star that doesnt. Wink
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

MC wrote:
I'd rather have a 5 star lid that fits than a 1 star lid that fits Wink


Let's not start debating the value of SHARP testing again. Rolling Eyes
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notbike
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah course it's gotta fit lol but that was already said Razz
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevlar jeans

Forceriders (£30) on eBay have CE armour and crash well (tested a few times this year). I wear these most of the time.

Draggin (100-160+) ones I have don't have CE armour. Kevlar is thicker than the cheap ones (probably thicker than needed), outer material is well made and stitched. I think though you are paying a lot for a label, I don't wear mine often.

Hornee (£100-ish) somewhere between Draggin and Forceriders in quality. My wife likes them as they do better female shaped cuts than Draggin.

Helmet - They all pass 22.05 so buy what you like and fits properly if that costs £40 or £200 it doesn't matter a whole lot. My skull is intact and I've never bounced off the ground in anything that cost more than £80.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHARP do not just test for protection, they include comfort, noise reduction, lightness etc.

Added to that, every real crash is different, the SHARP test is generic, they run a helmet through a specific set of tests but it is no way near a real world test of a helmet. The only way to test how a helmet performs is to send it down the road with a head in it. Not by bouncing it off various surfaces or rubbing a sanding belt over it.

A 3 star helmet can gain an extra star for lightness, for noise reduction. Will that be better than a 4 star one that has lost a star because it is not as light or comfortable?

It's a minefield. Get one ECE22:05 rated and make sure it fits. I do not rate the star test and would not rely on it when it comes to choosing a helmet.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Doomsnite
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go for a helmet with an internal sun visor if I was buying again... hate having to carry my sunnies round or wear them when its dull in the hope sun may pop out at some point... End up crushing them somewhere. Hoping Santa will get me one!
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MattEMulsion
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a helmet that is primarily comfortable and fits, but generally speaking though the more you pay the better the helmet. Cheaper helmets tend to be heavier, more noisy and have less features such as vents etc.

As for kevlar jeans I have a pair of Redroutes, although I am not sure if they are still made now? Anyway I have no complaints with them at all.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
A 3 star helmet can gain an extra star for lightness, for noise reduction.

Source?

SHARP only mention impact testing.
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TallPaul_S
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PostPosted: 18:59 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomsnite wrote:
I'd go for a helmet with an internal sun visor if I was buying again... hate having to carry my sunnies round or wear them when its dull in the hope sun may pop out at some point... End up crushing them somewhere. Hoping Santa will get me one!


Get a tinted visor - I have the Arai "Dark Smoke" one and use it all the time unless it's night/getting dark. They're perfectly fine in normal daylight, you only really need a clear visor for night time/dusk and dawn/misty winter mornings, I'll be carrying my spare on me in the visor bag from now on with the mornings starting to get gloomier.

OP - for Kevlar jeans your choice will also depend on if you just want to use them on the bike, I wear mine all day at work, for 12 hours a day some days, so comfort and fit were high on the priority list.

I'd recommend Furygan jeans (the 01 version with no leg stitching), they have D30 armor (awesome stuff!) and look like normal jeans, I have the black ones and they are a normal cut (not baggy like some) but still fit over full boots. The kevlar coverage isn't as good as some but it's no worse than the average.

TBH though I won't be wearing my kevlar jeans for too much longer, it'll be time for the textiles to come out, and then time for the thermal liners... Crying or Very sad
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Val
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: "Best" Helmet - and Kevlar Jeans... Reply with quote

as all guys mention the good fit is important, in order to have perfect fit the shape of your head and the helmet insulation are very important.

Different people have differently shaped heads, mean more oval or more circle see here:

https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-helmets/motorcycle-helmet-shapes.htm

I prefer:

MT Revenge Limited Evo Blue/White

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/108841

Note most of the jeans has kevlar only on few places for 360 degrees full coverage kevlar jeans I like John Doe Kamikaze

https://shop.ridejohndoe.com/uk/d2005-kamikaze-jeans-lightblue.html
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Val
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattEMulsion wrote:

generally speaking though the more you pay the better the helmet. Cheaper helmets tend to be heavier, more noisy and have less features such as vents etc.


not true there are plenty of expensive helmets that have very bad insulation, ventilation, are heavier and are very noisy and there are plenty relatively cheap helmets under £100 that are excellent.

Some expensive helmets are dangerous because they are too stiff and are designed to be too hard means not absobring enough energy on crash hence some cheap but SHARP compliant lids may have better protection for real life.


Here are the facts (my citation from): https://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/01/rating-helmets-beyond-passfail/

"Randy says:

From what I’ve read, the Arai’s don’t do well in SHARP testing because they have been designed with the SNELL tests in mind. The SNELL tests are at higher G’s and they test how well the helmet does in multiple hits in one area. To pass those tests the helmet has to have stiffer linings, which means that they have less give in lower speed hits. So doing well in SNELL trades off high speed safety for real-world lower speed safety. SNELL helmets may be better for racing, but ironically lower priced helmets with softer linings might be safer for street riding."

and

"

It is a matter of the amount of energy absorbed by a helmet at various speeds. According to this article:

https://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf

“The European Union recently released an extensive helmet study called COST 327, which involved close
study of 253 recent motorcycle accidents in Germany, Finland and the U.K. This is how they summarized
the state of the helmet art after analyzing the accidents and the damage done to the helmets and the
people: ‘Current designs are too stiff and too resilient, and energy is absorbed efficiently only at values of
HIC [Head Injury Criteria: a measure of G force over time] well above those which are survivable.’ ”

So, in other words, SNELL helmets are designed with an eye towards dealing with impacts where the rider isn’t going to survive in any case, at the expense of doing a better job of dealing with impacts that are survivable. In the case of lower energy, survivable impacts, SNELL helmets don’t do as well as helmets designed with an eye only towards ECE and SHARP.

I suggest that everyone read the cited article."
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FlightRisk
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding open face helmets: a large bumblebee has a surprising amount of heft at 40 mph. I know this from out on the bicycle. For this and other reasons I wouldn't recommend one on the motorbike if you value your face!

Similarly I wouldn't go for a flip-up lid as it's a weak point and what's the point in sticking a helmet on your head that has an inherent weak point?

Stick to the main brands like Shark, Arai, Shoei, HJC, AGV, Schuberth. (Any other good ones?)

Fit is key, it should be snug but not pressing in any areas because that will annoy the hell out of you after an hour or two and distract you.
Remember the padding will squish and loosen up after a little bit of use so go for the size that's snug and squishes your cheeks like a big leather clad hamster.
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JP7
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Re: "Best" Helmet - and Kevlar Jeans... Reply with quote

Deso27 wrote:
Ok post 2 - (after passing Mod 1 Friday)
When I get my own helmet - I want to get the best I can...I am sure there will be a lot of opinions - but looking for some/any strings do's and don'ts...Will be getting some for of cruiser bike - ie I am not a speed demon...and looking at everything open face, closed and flip (schuberth seems to continually crop up) - any recommendations appreciated...

Kevlar jeans - like the idea as opposed to leathers - and again anyone who has experienced the good or the bad please do offer up any advice...

Thank you guys/gals...

The best recommendation I can make is that you take yourself to a bike accessory store that stocks loads of helmets in different brands and sizes. Try loads on until you find something that fits perfectly.

You've mentioned Schuberth, if you're talking Schuberth money then consider getting something like a Shoei custom-fitted. I have always struggled to find a helmet that fits properly, and when it came to replacing my 5 year-old Arai Viper GT I had a big task ahead. I presented myself at one of my local dealers who custom-fitted a Shoei NXR for me. It cost £500... but I couldn't find anything else that fitted so well.

(Oh, by the way... if you like having a chin, don't buy open faced. Have a full-face.)

Kevlar jeans are great, I have a pair of Red Route jeans and they are very good.
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MattEMulsion
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 21 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
MattEMulsion wrote:

generally speaking though the more you pay the better the helmet. Cheaper helmets tend to be heavier, more noisy and have less features such as vents etc.


not true there are plenty of expensive helmets that have very bad insulation, ventilation, are heavier and are very noisy and there are plenty relatively cheap helmets under £100 that are excellent."

Go on then, give us some comparative examples...
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 22 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:

Some expensive helmets are dangerous because they are too stiff and are designed to be too hard means not absobring enough energy on crash hence some cheap but SHARP compliant lids may have better protection for real life.


Depends on the kind of crash you're planning on having. Thumbs Up Not all real life crashes are low speed.

Val wrote:

Here are the facts (my citation from): https://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/01/rating-helmets-beyond-passfail/

"Randy says:

From what I’ve read, the Arai’s don’t do well in SHARP testing because they have been designed with the SNELL tests in mind. The SNELL tests are at higher G’s and they test how well the helmet does in multiple hits in one area. To pass those tests the helmet has to have stiffer linings, which means that they have less give in lower speed hits. So doing well in SNELL trades off high speed safety for real-world lower speed safety. SNELL helmets may be better for racing, but ironically lower priced helmets with softer linings might be safer for street riding."


Not the MIGHT bit, sounds like Randy's sitting on the fence to me. He's not really saying anything in that sentence. Lower speed hits are more likely to be survivable in any case.

Val wrote:


and

"

It is a matter of the amount of energy absorbed by a helmet at various speeds. According to this article:

https://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf

“The European Union recently released an extensive helmet study called COST 327, which involved close
study of 253 recent motorcycle accidents in Germany, Finland and the U.K. This is how they summarized
the state of the helmet art after analyzing the accidents and the damage done to the helmets and the
people: ‘Current designs are too stiff and too resilient, and energy is absorbed efficiently only at values of
HIC [Head Injury Criteria: a measure of G force over time] well above those which are survivable.’ ”

So, in other words, SNELL helmets are designed with an eye towards dealing with impacts where the rider isn’t going to survive in any case, at the expense of doing a better job of dealing with impacts that are survivable. In the case of lower energy, survivable impacts, SNELL helmets don’t do as well as helmets designed with an eye only towards ECE and SHARP.

I suggest that everyone read the cited article."



And since when does "State of the art" mean SNELL approved?

Also, do the majority of motorcycle crashes involve multiple or single impacts? Or an impact then a slide?

I should point out the two crashes I've had, my helmet's never even touched the ground, so SNELL/ECE or SHARP ratings wouldn't have helped in my crashes, but my leathers (which aren't even required by law) helped massively. Wink
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Ali in Austria
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 22 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevlar jeans are very appealing from a comfort perspective and on the ones I tested in anger the Kevlar did what it claimed to do. The downside not mentioned in the advertising blurb were the nasty friction burns I received as the Kevlar conducted the heat nicely to my skin.
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Val
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 22 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattEMulsion wrote:
Go on then, give us some comparative examples...


Arai Quantum £469 weights 1.5 kg very only 3 stars SHARP rating with bad side impact rating:

https://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/arai-quantum

MT Revenge £64 weights 1.45 kg 5 stars SHARP rating:

https://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/mt-revenge

I do have relatively expensive Caberg that was advertised as excellent ventilation in fact its awfull compared to other £30 pound cheap G-MAC lid I have.

I am sure there are excellent £500 lids out there but you are paying mostly for the brand not that this helmets are 10 times better or safer then £40 lid.
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