Suggest me a better supermoto

[_Iain_]

So the Duke 2 is basicly a supermoto.

Before we get into the streetmoto/supermoto/commutermoto argument, what alternatives are there?

As I look at it this bike owes me minimal money. I like the headlight that actually works. I like the way it handles, I like the comfy seat and I like the way it develops power. I don't like the speed wobble that starts around 80-90mph, and I don't like maxxing out at 100mph. I'd like a bit more power really, ideally get it so it pulls as it does now however can hit 115-120 when really pushed hard. I'd like a little more high speed stability too.

I figure I can upgear it, and whack a fancy carb on it at a cost of around 300. The firm supplying parts quote 4-5bhp gain with said carb, they don't reccomend fitting a fancy cam. Upgearing it would give me a top speed of 115 utterly hammering it & the power gain ought to pull it there. I then spend 50 quid on a used steering damper/fork leg clamp & make up some brackets to fit it, thus hopefully sorting the high speed wobble issue.

Or

I can leave it alone & buy a new bike with the value of my bike plus the 350 squid I'd have spent fettling it.

Whatd'ya think
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Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[P.]

300 EXC and change for a super ped.

[_Iain_]

Lacks the 4-5k torque, doesn't make the braaAAAP noise, doesn't have a headlight that actually works, doesn't have a comfy seat, unsure if handles the same (highly doubt it being converted enduro) almost definately won't have brakes that good, stupid service intervals, suspect it will suffer from worse speed wobble than the Duke does due to offroad geometry, the list goes on. It's also only 45 horsepowers (duke makes 54 as standard)& won't take kindly to a sustained 85-90mph cruise down the motorway nomatter what gearing I put it on.

I'd like one, but it simply wouldn't do what I need a bike to do at the moment
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[Crz]

Ktm smc 690?

Never owned one but judging from what I've read about them, they seem to fit your list.

Only bad thing is the price though
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[stevo as b4]

Iain, TBH mate I think any fairly reliable road usable big single is going to struggle to really better the Duke, which is a way better road bike than many focused 4stroke motards like a YZF450F or similar. Something competition like a KTM 640 or Husaberg or Husqvarna is likely to be less roadable, less reliable and more of a pain in the arse.

Your KTM being over 50bhp should be happy with 85mph cruising, my old KMX200 was happy at 75mph, so I don't see why not.

But if your after 100mph sustained instead of a quick top speed run, and a ceiling of 120mph, I think you really need a twin cyl bike of 60-70bhp at least. Maybe even something like an SV650 with a jacked up back end, a set of supermoto forks and wheels on it as a cheap lash up that would do the job?

A CB500 twin engine in the KTM Duke chassis would provide the performance you need, or look to a bigger SM V-twin like a tatty KTM 990 or something not quite supermoto like an Aprilia dosoduro 750 or similar. Either way I think you need a 2,3, or4cyl bike? Any single pot 4stroke is not a 100mph+ sustainable bike and a 2smoke even less likely to be.

I could be talking bollocks, but even the latest KTM 690's I doubt are that great for 100mph or thereabouts, and a twin like the Husqvarna Nuda or KTM990 would be way better bikes, as would a converted or bastardised road bike. I'm sure if someone wanted to they could take something like a Honda Hornet 600and make it more supermoto wannabe with the right suspension, and asthetic mods?

[G]

[_Iain_]

Would be after a sustainable 85-90, a 100mph cruise on a bike with that riding position can't be that much fun!

Brakes on mine are four pot Brembo's, not radially mounted though & apparently the steering wobble is pretty common on it.

https://www.teamincomplete.com/Projects/Duke/Resources/img6418.jpeg

EXC, yes it could have the headlight conversion on it but what's the point in buying another bike just to spend £££ improving it when I could stick with what I know & like? I could then find a whole load of other issues!

Has no FCR carb as standard, am proposing binning the Mikuni BST40 and replacing with a Mikuni TM40.

https://www.abp-racing.de/s/cc_images/cache_3944504.jpg

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abp-racing.de%2Fvergaser%2F&edit-text=&act=url

SV650's a possibility, however if I was to do that then the Firstorm provides more of everything at the same price. Duke is also a much nicer riding position than a naked SV with renthals - I found the SV feels a bit crunched up? Dorsoduro/Shiver is what I'll likely buy at some point in the future, but they're simply not a £2-2.5k bike

I think half the issue might even be where I downgeared it to try and get a bit more grunt out of it at the bottom end before discovering the emmissions crap.
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[G]

[Copycat73]

I think supermotard wise to get the performance your after is gonna take a V twin and probably a 800cc -1000cc ;or more; motor.
As well as bein Derived from a road machine; which would likely have better brakes and high speed stability ;rather than off road..
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Whatever I post I have no citation and no intention of providing one..
caveat emptor

[G]

Actually, a tedium might be worth considering.
Not sure about prices on the versys/v strom 650s.

[_Iain_]

Basicly I find bluebell hill boring, and the couple of junctions of A2 boring. On anything else I'd pin it & go flying up that section well into triple figures to get it over and done with. I can't really do it on this.

Versys is ER-6 based, I hate ER-6's.

I want something that rides exactly like my bike, but with a little more high speed stability (without sacrificing any of that low speed agility) and a little more grunt.

Basicly the answer was as suspected that there isn't really anything else out there that matches my wants so I'd be better off living with what I've got and slowing down a bit!
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[Conzar]

What about a MK1 Bandit 1200 if you are looking at naked sv650's?
Oooooozes of Torque and Power wheelies!

Or what about a Tuono?

For what you are wanting in a supermoto its going to be a lot of money.
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Current ride: ZX6R 636 ------- Previous:KTM EXC 450 Supermoto --- ZX6R B1H --Hornet 600--CBR 600--SV650
11:05:35 Rob Fzs: i just wanna own an rd350 valve before they send us to war with durkadurkastan

[G]

It depends the exact stability you want (we may be thinking different things), but it really shouldn't be a problem to get it dialed in one way or another. I didn't find the Duke 3 a problem at 107 (gearing limited).

As for grunt, a new 690 Duke R (the ones that are actually 690cc, the original were 654cc) might help, but on my 690 (which is a 654), it still isn't ideal - I suspect if you had the 'R', you'd be wanting more still.

In the end, you've got terrible aerodynamics and an engine that's far from ideal for sustained high speed.

It's not tarty enough for you I suspect and would require a bit of work, but something like this seems to meet your requirements.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/BlueLghtning/Other%20Bikes/SV650%20dual%20sported/17Cimg0957.jpg
Or you could just get a V-Strom, though it'd be heavier.
With the above, replace the subframe for an aluminum based one and a couple of lightening bits and you're probably at Duke weight levels.

[_Iain_]

State of that

The buying a second bike is an appealing idea at the moment as I'm finding the 'one bike to do everything' thing a little tricky.

Tuono's are fap. Fap and more fap.

They are on the must buy list. It must be the blue one though.

https://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk161/tjbrowder/Tuono/IMGP0967.jpg

1200 Bandit is cheap & cheerful...and an ideal start point for a turbo build. Also on the list is a K5-K6 GSXR750 & a CBR600 '04 & '05

I think I need some more money & a garage.
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[G]

[_Iain_]

[MarJay]

Just stick with the Duke and don't ride above 100mph. I rarely ride over 100mph on my Street Triple anyway.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[1cyl]

Good thread folks. Epic pics, loving that 4 cylinder dirt muncher

The business of turbocharging a big single has been something that I've also on occasion dwelled upon. Originally, I felt that fitting a turbo to any bike that wasn't a Busa or the like, was a bit pointless. But, since falling in love with SM's, and the characteristics of big singles, its definitely something that I'd consider for the SMC, given the cash and a few more years. Just for the grins.
Of course, I'd need a turbo expert mega genius, to help me get it looking and running like it might have popped out of a factory. And that's megabucks I don't have, or could buy 2stroke with.

On topic, Its a shame you cant stretch your budget to make an offer on a dosodurodo, or similar, which I estimate (as you've realised) to meet your exact criteria:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/APRIL-DORSODURO-2008-750cc-V-TWIN-SUPERMOTO-/161442547110?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item2596b9c5a6

As has been said, the 690's are great, a little improvement where you want it, but not alot. + What I consider to be "pure and wholesome SM" (900mm+ seat height and less than 150kg) is never going to be good at a 100mph+.
____________________
Chase my Witch up, Catch my Snitch up.
The SMC | The Pit | Stable

[stevo as b4]

I hate to say it, but I agree with G and the bastardised SV650 or Hornet or similar?

Blandit is a heavy old bike, take away it's strong as a safe motor and it's go nothing going for it. Less style than a ZRX12 or XJR1300, and naff suspension and build quality.

Firestorm is a 190kg bike, and with renthals etc I don't think there's a lot to lose weight wise, It's going to still be a 175-180kg at best unless you fit it out with mega expensive Ti and alloy bits. It could be a poor man's Tuono though, but by the time your done spending and uprating the barely good enough brakes and suspension, you could have brought an Aprilia most likely.

I like your Duke, it's a cracking looking single, fairly light and it's in another dimension performance wise compared to say an XT660X or similar. You've got a good thing going with that bike, and if you have to slow down 10-15mph like Marjay says it's still worth the trade IMO.

A turbo on the KTM could and I'm sure would work to an extent, but I rarely see anything turbo as a good/useable daily transport vehicle, and with the KTM being a well tuned high compression single of 50-55bhp is there much head room for a turbo without grenading the motor?

I've messed with small bike's, scooter's and warm hatch car's before and lost a lot of money in the search for a bit more power and speed. I've said for a long time now after taking other's advice that tuning is only worth doing when your ride is already more than fast enough for what you want.

I know I'm going to mess with my KMX, but if and when I get a V-max I don't need 145bhp, but further tuning it can never disappoint me if I don't use all it's motor anyway.

[Fladdem]

I know what you mean, although my TTR is a far-from-super-moto, I wouldn't mind a touch more grunt so it could hold 70 comfortably, top speed is probably about 90? given enough room. Maybe not though.

I'm quite a big fan of the V-Strom. Or getting an Africa Twin and doing this to it:

https://rossifumi46.fr/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/nuevas_fotos_moto_024.sized_.jpg

I also consider a TTR 600 and bodging some sort of fairing to it, but you could grab an XT660Z Tenere for the price of a TTR plus home-made fairing and mods, it would be easier to get the Tenere and sort out the suspension.

Really I need to get more space to store bikes. I would like a 600-650 size supermoto or even a rally raid style, a 250/300 two stroke enduro bike, a TY250, a TZR250 3XV, a CBX1000 and my H100 powered MT5, that would be quite a good garage to have.
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Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget.

[G]

Never saw particular issues with SV frames snapping in minitwins.
When you're doing wheelies for long enough to starve the front cylinder, consider worrying about it .
The clutch actuator is irksome for losing bearing. Radiator might not be ideal for dumping it down on dirt, but then a tart-moto won't be either and will likely cost a lot more to 'fix up'.

Likely an SV would come with wheels, if it doesn't. SV wheels don't cost £600! Picture was just an example; I wouldn't be buying silly spoked wheels for road use. You could stick an entire KTM suspension and yolks on and it not cost £600 even with fabrication.

I was more thinking, say - £500 SV650. £250 front suspension mods + ok, don't use the SV brakes, lets go for a single R6 caliper for around £50.
Also comes with a headlight.

Again, the SV weighs 15kg more than the duke going from listed weights and you can likely reduce that difference a bit too. Africa twins are listed as an extra 40kg on that, yet make similar power to my 690, which is listed at 2/3rds of the weight of the Honda.


I entirely agree on not doing a 'project' when you can buy an off the shelf solution for similar or less.
I don't think you'll be able to find any such 'off the shelf' bike that weighs the same an an SV650 for the sort of price you could do it for.

What multi cylinder engine would 'simply' go in your KTM frame?
And while big single turbos are used for snow a bit, I can't see them offering the ride or longevity you're after, never mind, I bet a hell of a lot more complexity, hassle and possibilities to go horribly wrong.

I wouldn't take someone (who claims their bike is better than a sports bike under braking ) with a 136hp Duke as evidence it will handle sustained use on the road, even with a lot less boost.

Anyway; still waiting for clarification on which bits of 'supermoto' you consider important?

[_Iain_]

I've ridden a lot of bikes that have worse brakes than that Duke in all fairness, it stops a lot better than I'd expected when I bought the thing - hence I've been doing reasonably well at learning stoppies

I figure that if they can claim 136bhp out of that engine, then a standard one ought to not shit itself at 75bhp

[G]

It's not just the 75hp, but that you're using it for sustained high speed - something I've found they often don't like - two big end bearings gone on singles used like that.

Despite your initial assertion, I had presumed the 'supermoto' thing was a moot point - if you wanted all the benefits of one, you wouldn't have gone for the Duke when lighter bikes are available with the same engine.

But yes; riding slower seems the most sensible option .

[weasley]

[1cyl]

Wait a cotton pickin' minute! Its a fake! Is it? Isn't it? The gixer dirt bike. The seat looks photoshop weird.

I'll be "crosser" if it is!


see what I did^
____________________
Chase my Witch up, Catch my Snitch up.
The SMC | The Pit | Stable