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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 10:00 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Bike coughs smoke when trying to start Reply with quote

Hey,

So I'm still in my first year of riding and as many of you may know it's gotten pretty frosty now (at least on the south west). unfortunately for me my bike cover ripped last week which meant I had to keep it outside uncovered for the long weekend I just had.

I went to start the bike this morning, put full choke on and started it up and everything was fine. After a minute loads of white smoke started coming out of the exhaust so I shut it down.

Now when I try to start the bike it just coughs out white smoke when I press the ignition button. Is this a serious issue that I need to take to a garage or can I fix it?

Edit: I should probably note that it's a 125 enduro. The same bike as a pulse adrenaline.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

White smoke is just condensation turned into steam (its got warm).... Not a problem at all.
Just look at cars stood at traffic lights and see exactly the same effect.

What you might have done is flooded it a bit leaving the choke on.

DO NOT WORRY Thumbs Up

South west cold and frosty?????? They keep telling us it's just wet and warm....
Still not had any frosty temps up in the north yet.... Guess it must be you soft southern fairies and anything below 10C Wink
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
White smoke is just condensation turned into steam (its got warm).... Not a problem at all.
Just look at cars stood at traffic lights and see exactly the same effect.

What you might have done is flooded it a bit leaving the choke on.

DO NOT WORRY Thumbs Up

South west cold and frosty?????? They keep telling us it's just wet and warm....
Still not had any frosty temps up in the north yet.... Guess it must be you soft southern fairies and anything below 10C Wink


Thanks mate you put my mind at rest. I thought I had done something major since its only a 1 year old bike and never failed to start. Had to walk to work thinking I damaged the bike. Just need my new cover to come asap.

But Yeh haha. Woke up this morning to everything frosted over and the bike covered in it. First winter in the south for me, I'm from Glasgow originally (not a southerner haha) and there I was thinking it was nothing but sunshine this far south haha. Even the ignition button got stuck the first time I pressed it.
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AndyNUFC
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Re: Bike coughs smoke when trying to start Reply with quote

ColdKill wrote:
Hey,

So I'm still in my first year of riding and as many of you may know it's gotten pretty frosty now (at least on the south west). unfortunately for me my bike cover ripped last week which meant I had to keep it outside uncovered for the long weekend I just had.

I went to start the bike this morning, put full choke on and started it up and everything was fine. After a minute loads of white smoke started coming out of the exhaust so I shut it down.

Now when I try to start the bike it just coughs out white smoke when I press the ignition button. Is this a serious issue that I need to take to a garage or can I fix it?

Edit: I should probably note that it's a 125 enduro. The same bike as a pulse adrenaline.


im getting the conden smoke too. so nothing to worry about Smile

however my main concern is FULL CHOKE Shocked surely it doesnt need this to start?

all i do with mine is put it on enough to hold 2K revs for a few mins and then drop it off and the bikes sustains its self at its usual rpm
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Re: Bike coughs smoke when trying to start Reply with quote

AndyNUFC wrote:
ColdKill wrote:
Hey,

So I'm still in my first year of riding and as many of you may know it's gotten pretty frosty now (at least on the south west). unfortunately for me my bike cover ripped last week which meant I had to keep it outside uncovered for the long weekend I just had.

I went to start the bike this morning, put full choke on and started it up and everything was fine. After a minute loads of white smoke started coming out of the exhaust so I shut it down.

Now when I try to start the bike it just coughs out white smoke when I press the ignition button. Is this a serious issue that I need to take to a garage or can I fix it?

Edit: I should probably note that it's a 125 enduro. The same bike as a pulse adrenaline.


im getting the conden smoke too. so nothing to worry about Smile

however my main concern is FULL CHOKE Shocked surely it doesnt need this to start?

all i do with mine is put it on enough to hold 2K revs for a few mins and then drop it off and the bikes sustains its self at its usual rpm


I've never been warned about using full choke or how open I should make it. So I normally just put it in half choke on general cold days when I struggles to start or warm up, but my bike was almost frozen over and everything was stiff so I thought full choke would be best. Apparently I learned that lesson the hard way.

I'll keep the 2K revs in mind next time. Going to ha've to wait until after work to try again though. Thanks.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Air cooled engine, right? White smoke can only be from condensation in the exhaust.

Full choke from cold is fine, that's exactly what it's there for.
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AndyNUFC
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Air cooled engine, right? White smoke can only be from condensation in the exhaust.

Full choke from cold is fine, that's exactly what it's there for.


then ive been taught wrong Shocked

i was always told full choke can flood the carbs, so just find a way to balance at a RPM then reduce so it sustains itself Question Neutral
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not suggesting leaving it on for any length of time, just for the initial push (or kick) on a cold day. If it doesn't start immediately on full, try a different setting, but why would it be there if not to be used?
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andym
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even during the summer I put the choke on full until the engine gets to 3.5k rpm then switch it off.

All it does is restrict the amount of air giving a richer fuel-air mixture
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyNUFC wrote:

then ive been taught wrong Shocked

i was always told full choke can flood the carbs, so just find a way to balance at a RPM then reduce so it sustains itself Question Neutral


There is no right or wrong way. Thumbs Up

Some bikes like full choke, some do not.
I have had a bike that would not start on full choke. But put it on half and wind the throttle open and it would fire up.... Go figure.
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I got home and tried to start the bike up but still nothing.

I read somewhere that if you put the choke off or event halfway then open the throttle about half way then try to start it, it will normally start and then you just close the choke and hold the throttle enough to allow it to burn away any fuel.

I've tried starting it with throttle and choke off and on halfway with nothing.

Does anyone have any tips on fixing it? I need to get it working for work tomorrow. Keep in mind it's still pretty cold outside and the bike has been sitting so the engine will be pretty cold.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take plug out and dry it.
Or
Try bump starting it.

If you keep cranking it over it should fire up, but you may flatten the battery 1st...
Do you have a charger?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's flooded then I'd normally go with choke fully off, open the throttle fully, hold it open, and kick or crank a few times. Don't blip the throttle, just hold it open.

Plug out and dry it off is a good plan, it'll also give any fuel in the cylinder a chance to evaporate. Although really I'd have expected it to have done so anyway.

When you say "the same bike as a Pulse Adrenaline", it definitely has an air cooled engine, right?
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been out trying to get it working.

Took the plug out and dried it.
Tried turning over the bike a few times with the plug out to make it spit out any fuel inside.
Tried bump starting it (probably was doing a crappy attempt at it)
Once all of those failed I just kept trying to get it to catch with choke off and throttle open.

Unfortunate it's worse. I'm not sure if my battery is dead or not. What confuses me about it is my lights still work fine but when I try to start the engine I get a tiny response after clicking the start engine button and nothing, it cancels itself out. It's like a "uggh" then nothing (no idea how to type the sound), whereas before it would sound like it might catch but wouldn't. Is this the battery or the spark plug?

P.S. It is an air cooled engine. It's the exact same as the pulse adrenaline except a different company slapped their logos on it (pulse don't build the bikes either).
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AndyNUFC
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdKill wrote:
So I've been out trying to get it working.

Took the plug out and dried it.
Tried turning over the bike a few times with the plug out to make it spit out any fuel inside.
Tried bump starting it (probably was doing a crappy attempt at it)
Once all of those failed I just kept trying to get it to catch with choke off and throttle open.

Unfortunate it's worse. I'm not sure if my battery is dead or not. What confuses me about it is my lights still work fine but when I try to start the engine I get a tiny response after clicking the start engine button and nothing, it cancels itself out. It's like a "uggh" then nothing (no idea how to type the sound), whereas before it would sound like it might catch but wouldn't. Is this the battery or the spark plug?

P.S. It is an air cooled engine. It's the exact same as the pulse adrenaline except a different company slapped their logos on it (pulse don't build the bikes either).


lights take very little to power,

but battery could now be flat if before it was sounding like it might catch but now its sort of going "uhmmmmmm no!" Laughing

do you have a charger?
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyNUFC wrote:
ColdKill wrote:
So I've been out trying to get it working.

Took the plug out and dried it.
Tried turning over the bike a few times with the plug out to make it spit out any fuel inside.
Tried bump starting it (probably was doing a crappy attempt at it)
Once all of those failed I just kept trying to get it to catch with choke off and throttle open.

Unfortunate it's worse. I'm not sure if my battery is dead or not. What confuses me about it is my lights still work fine but when I try to start the engine I get a tiny response after clicking the start engine button and nothing, it cancels itself out. It's like a "uggh" then nothing (no idea how to type the sound), whereas before it would sound like it might catch but wouldn't. Is this the battery or the spark plug?

P.S. It is an air cooled engine. It's the exact same as the pulse adrenaline except a different company slapped their logos on it (pulse don't build the bikes either).


lights take very little to power,

but battery could now be flat if before it was sounding like it might catch but now its sort of going "uhmmmmmm no!" Laughing

do you have a charger?


Not atm, but there's a bike shop 10 min walk from my work so I will be buying one this week at some time.

But yeh, when I click the ignition button it doesn't sound like it's going to start at all, it makes a split noise then nothing. Sometimes I even hear a small beep, like a warning beep. I've been digging through my manual but haven't found anything on it as of yet.


Last edited by ColdKill on 20:32 - 24 Nov 2014; edited 2 times in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:27 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll want to get that battery on charge ASAP, especially in the cold. On that matter, if it's a wet cell, when was the last time that you checked the electrolyte levels?

125s are pretty easy to bump start. 2nd or even 3rd gear, clutch in, push-push, jump on, clutch out until it spins, clutch in. You need very little speed.

That's assuming that it's going to start up. Don't change your normal start routine from whatever worked this morning until you've definitely determined that it won't fire up like that with a fully charged battery or a man sized bump.
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
You'll want to get that battery on charge ASAP, especially in the cold. On that matter, if it's a wet cell, when was the last time that you checked the electrolyte levels?

125s are pretty easy to bump start. 2nd or even 3rd gear, clutch in, push-push, jump on, clutch out until it spins, clutch in. You need very little speed.

That's assuming that it's going to start up. Don't change your normal start routine from whatever worked this morning until you've definitely determined that it won't fire up like that with a fully charged battery or a man sized bump.


How bad is it if I wait? I get paid Friday of this week so I was hopping to buy it then and just walk to work in the meantime.

I've recorded this. If you listen closely near the end when I point my phone down you can hear the beep.

https://youtu.be/yAIz7J1ojqc
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprised it won't start if you're just pressing the starter like that. Hold it until it fires. You can hold them one for usually a max of 5-10 seconds with no issues.

Still sounds like it's cranking ok to be honest. Seems to have enough power to push it past the compression stroke, just that you're not holding the starter on long enough.
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 22:05 - 24 Nov 2014; edited 1 time in total
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Not surprised it won't start if you're just pressing the starter like that. Hold it until it fires. You can hold them one for usually a max of 5-10 seconds with no issues.

Still sounds like it's cranking ok to be honest. Seems to have enough power to push it past the compression stroke, just that you're not holding the start on long enough.


But when I hold it in for longer is just goes out.

EDIT: I went back out and tried it like you said. Now all I'm getting when I press the starter is a clicking noise and no sound from the engine at all. I also switched on the lights on the bike so I can see (it's at the side of my house with no lights). As soon as I press the starter all the lights on the bike cut out and don't go back on until I release it. That's never happened before when starting the bike.


Last edited by ColdKill on 22:10 - 24 Nov 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:05 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdKill wrote:


But when I hold it in for longer is just goes out.


How do you mean "goes out". Just stops? If so, I retract my statement. I now say, charge it or bump it.
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ColdKill
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
ColdKill wrote:


But when I hold it in for longer is just goes out.


How do you mean "goes out". Just stops? If so, I retract my statement. I now say, charge it or bump it.


Sorry you replied as I was editing my comment.

I went back out and tried it like you said. Now all I'm getting when I press the starter is a clicking noise and no sound from the engine at all. I also switched on the lights on the bike so I can see (it's at the side of my house with no lights). As soon as I press the starter all the lights on the bike cut out (including the light that illuminates my interface/dials or w/e) and don't go back on until I release it. That's never happened before when starting the bike.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 24 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

ColdKill wrote:


Sorry you replied as I was editing my comment.

I went back out and tried it like you said. Now all I'm getting when I press the starter is a clicking noise and no sound from the engine at all. I also switched on the lights on the bike so I can see (it's at the side of my house with no lights). As soon as I press the starter all the lights on the bike cut out (including the light that illuminates my interface/dials or w/e) and don't go back on until I release it. That's never happened before when starting the bike.


Flat battery. Charge it or bump it. Thumbs Up

Also if you're going to bump it, do so with the lights off so that the coils can get what little power the battery has left.
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Major Doss
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PostPosted: 03:41 - 25 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your original post, you state that you 'shut it down' - this didn't involve the kill switch perchance?
Got fuel in tank, tap on? If that is groovy, charge/bump like everyone says.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 11:01 - 25 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
White smoke is just condensation turned into steam (its got warm)....


Smoke and steam are different. Smoke is particulate matter, comes from burning things incompletely.

Steam is gaseous water, when it condenses it forms white droplets. Like clouds, mist, fog, your breath on a cold day. Steam from a kettle is normal, smoke means electrical fire.

Water is a byproduct of complete hydrocarbon combustion. Expect to see steam condensing from exhausts on a cold morning as exhaust heats up. Will leave damp patch on paper or cloth held in exhaust stream.

White smoke on the other hand is likely burning oil, sometimes blueish or brownish. Will leave a deposit on a piece of paper or cloth held in the exhaust stream.
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