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A question about infinity for mathsy/sciencey people.

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c_dug
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 12 Jan 2015    Post subject: A question about infinity for mathsy/sciencey people. Reply with quote

During my commute home tonight while filtering through endless miles of traffic down the A13 a thought got stuck in my mind.

If there are a hypothetical infinite amount of universes then it follows that I am in an infinite amount of them (because infinity?). Surely it also follows that there are an infinite amount that I am not in.

Is one infinity bigger than the other? Is that even possible? It seems to me that there must be more universes without me in them at all than there are with me in, but if both are infinity how does that even work?
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 12 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you mean realities? Which are hypothesised as being infinite. As there is one Universe, the totality of space and time.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 12 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever the wording, the sentiment is the same no?
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 12 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Whatever the wording, the sentiment is the same no?


Infinity is infinity is infinity.
If you limit your parameters then yes you may well appear to be proportionally in fewer realities than you are not but the probability is that if you've had a blow job in reality then you've had an infinite amount of blowjobs if you factor in other realities (so who cares about the ones you're not in Laughing )
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noobRider
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PostPosted: 05:34 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a maths person but while infinity is infinity, some infinities can be larger than others, e.g.
Quote:
As German mathematician Georg Cantor demonstrated in the late 19th century, there exists a variety of infinities—and some are simply larger than others.

Take, for instance, the so-called natural numbers: 1, 2, 3 and so on. These numbers are unbounded, and so the collection, or set, of all the natural numbers is infinite in size. But just how infinite is it? Cantor used an elegant argument to show that the naturals, although infinitely numerous, are actually less numerous than another common family of numbers, the "reals." (This set comprises all numbers that can be represented as a decimal, even if that decimal representation is infinite in length. Hence, 27 is a real number, as is π, or 3.14159….)

In fact, Cantor showed, there are more real numbers packed in between zero and one than there are numbers in the entire range of naturals.

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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 06:29 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Whatever the wording, the sentiment is the same no?


Yeah - fuck words. We'll just use psi-power to access your sentiments.
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 06:46 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Re: A question about infinity for mathsy/sciencey people. Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
During my commute home tonight while filtering through endless miles of traffic down the A13 a thought got stuck in my mind.

If there are a hypothetical infinite amount of universes then it follows that I am in an infinite amount of them (because infinity?). Surely it also follows that there are an infinite amount that I am not in.

Is one infinity bigger than the other? Is that even possible? It seems to me that there must be more universes without me in them at all than there are with me in, but if both are infinity how does that even work?
You just pay attention and watch where you're going!
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weasley
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PostPosted: 07:32 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infinity is a mind-fuck. Here's one for you:

How many radii are there in a circle? Answer: an infinite number.

OK, so how many radii are there in a sphere? The same number?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 07:34 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cardinal it's of infinity is what you're looking for, noob appears to have a section of it.

Basically, infinities can be of different sizes - countable infinities or uncountable infinities. The two infinities you describe are the same size and are considered countable - you could use an integer to represent every single one of them.

Your infinities and integers are the same size... And, this is where it may sound odd, but they are the same size as an infinity of rational numbers (anything that can be represented as a fraction).

This pic may illustrate why...

https://divisbyzero.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/screen-shot-2013-04-16-at-9-23-14-pm.png

The red line shows a clear path through the list of rational numbers, at each step you can label the rational (give it a position... 1st, 2nd, 3rd...299th...). Because you have infinite integers you can always label any new number added to that table, thus they are countable.

Real numbers (which include irrationals like pi) are not, however, countable. You cannot even begin to draw the table - there will always be infinite values between 0 and the first value you choose.

<edit> watch this instead - https://youtu.be/fRhdpyaOhEo
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:13 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

An infinite number of you are getting blowjobs right now.

However, in a sample of 1000 of your cocks, only one of them is getting sucked right now.

That's how textbooks should explain it.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
An infinite number of you are getting blowjobs right now.

However, in a sample of 1000 of your cocks, only one of them is getting sucked right now.

That's how textbooks should explain it.


Eventually it will be the one I am using to type this with?

Hopefully.
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orac
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infinite isn't really a thing, it's simply a term used for something indescribably large to a point where a number can not illustrate whatever it is. Alot of things are described as infinite due to unknown properties. We already know the universe to our perception is not infinite
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but do we? I mean, if the universe is continuously expanding surely we can't know whether the energy it uses in this expansion is finite or infinite? Also, what about the "space" it is expanding into - that might be infinite as well, mightn't it?

Please don't destroy my entire mind if/when replying to this as I am hopelessly stuck in a very crude newtonian thang and can't deal with other more hardcore stuff.
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Taught2BCauti...
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

orac wrote:
Infinite isn't really a thing, it's simply a term used for something indescribably large to a point where a number can not illustrate whatever it is. Alot of things are described as infinite due to unknown properties. We already know the universe to our perception is not infinite


I read somewhere, that current thinking is that there are many 'universes' out there, because the galaxies at the furthest reaches of our own universe, are showing signs of being deflected, and it was illustrated as being similar to what happens when several soap bubbles come together.

https://phys.org/news/2010-12-scientists-evidence-universes.html
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

orac wrote:
Infinite isn't really a thing, it's simply a term used for something indescribably large to a point where a number can not illustrate whatever it is. Alot of things are described as infinite due to unknown properties. We already know the universe to our perception is not infinite


Infinite is a thing. It is a mathematical concept. If something is large, but has an end then it is not infinite... Your description implies that numbers have a finite usability... They do not.

If something cannot conceivably be counted or measured, it is not merely large it has no end.

Whether anything in reality is infinite is a different question.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 10:55 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

You aren't understanding infinity, it is a concept not a number.


∞+1 = ∞
∞x2 = ∞
∞x∞ = ∞
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pdg
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:

Basically, infinities can be of different sizes - countable infinities or uncountable infinities.


If you can count it, I can add 1 to what you have counted. Ergo, it is not infinite...

Basically, if you can comprehend the end of something it is finite.

As for infinity+1, you cannot add something to something that has no end. You might be able to stick it in the middle somewhere though.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
You aren't understanding infinity, it is a concept not a number.

∞+1 = ∞

But ∞+1 > ∞ if you're into hyperreality.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a brilliant quote I read about infinity and understanding the scale of it. I can't remember who it was by and I am going to reproduce it far less elegantly.

Imagine a steel sphere the size of the earth, and then imagine that a fly lands on this sphere once every million years. The sphere will ware away into nothingness before you get anywhere close to infinity.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

But wouldn't the fly just die after a few weeks? Or is this different flies?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdg wrote:
If you can count it, I can add 1 to what you have counted. Ergo, it is not infinite...

Basically, if you can comprehend the end of something it is finite.

As for infinity+1, you cannot add something to something that has no end. You might be able to stick it in the middle somewhere though.


May I suggest you quit your jibber jabber...

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Countable+infinity

A countable infinity is one that can map directly onto the infinite set of integers. I'm sure you'll get it once you've read a bit more...
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
But wouldn't the fly just die after a few weeks? Or is this different flies?


Different flies, it destroy the sphere because it evolves over those years into a metal stomping monster.
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The Wobbly Orange
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

My girlfriend put the Hollyoaks omnibus on the TV, pretty sure that lasts for infinity.
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Re: A question about infinity for mathsy/sciencey people. Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
During my commute home tonight while filtering through endless miles of traffic down the A13 a thought got stuck in my mind.

If there are a hypothetical infinite amount of universes then it follows that I am in an infinite amount of them (because infinity?). Surely it also follows that there are an infinite amount that I am not in.

Is one infinity bigger than the other? Is that even possible? It seems to me that there must be more universes without me in them at all than there are with me in, but if both are infinity how does that even work?


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Chinaboy
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 13 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:


Imagine a steel sphere the size of the earth, and then imagine that a fly lands on this sphere once every million years. The sphere will ware away into nothingness before you get anywhere close to infinity.


Are we saying it wears away because the flies stomp on it or is the steel going to corrode and rust away because the flies have sticky sweaty feet? Furthermore, where the fuck are these flies coming from? and who chooses the lucky bugger to get sent to the steel world? Confused Question
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