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Random13
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: dial gauge Reply with quote
Hello,

Just trying to get my head around the below dial gauge needing it to measure run out on my disc


if the disc run out is more than 0.25 mm which means it is gone, would that be 250 micrometer?

the below dial gauge which shows between 0-10mm , would show 0-10000 micrometer ?

do I also need the stand to keep it static while turning the disc?

Thanks
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Iain.
Could Be A Chat Bot



Joined: 04 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
1mm = 1000 micrometres

Gauge has to be 100% static whilst rotating disc or it will screw with readings.

On cars we had a magnetic mount to put onto the suspension leg, I've never done it on a bike though.
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Random13
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MAGNETIC-BASE-METRIC-GAUGE-INDICATOR/dp/B003W4SFSK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421774879&sr=8-2&keywords=dial+gauge
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 17:36 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:
something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MAGNETIC-BASE-METRIC-GAUGE-INDICATOR/dp/B003W4SFSK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421774879&sr=8-2&keywords=dial+gauge


You may have problems using a magnetic based gauge on an aluminium swing arm!
I too have never used a dial gauge on a bike (although I do have access to one). If you have a floating disc with removable rivets then just remove it from the wheel, remove the rivets and lay on a piece of glass. You'll soon see if it's flat.

Why not put some pics up of the disc? Makes life a lot easier to see what type of disc we're talking about

Edit: If the front disc then it'll be even trickier using a magnetic dial gauge on forks.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Please don't use the term micrometres to refer to a measurement of distance. A micrometer is a tool.

In all but the finest of engineering measurements are done in millimetres and decimals thereof. 0.25mm is 0.25mm not 250 microns.

If you need to refer to something in microns you won't be asking about them.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:
something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MAGNETIC-BASE-METRIC-GAUGE-INDICATOR/dp/B003W4SFSK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421774879&sr=8-2&keywords=dial+gauge


For £20 you can't do much better. Get rid of that stupid adjuster in the middle of the rod and put the short rod in the clamp or you'll be fiddling with it for ages.
If you're turning the wheel to check runout you probably have it on a front paddock stand. if this is the case you could probably put the gauge on the tube of the stand. Otherwise bend a bit of flat metal and jubilee clip in to your fork, fix the dial to that.
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Random13
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think my front disc is bent . visually it looks bent but I am not getting any vibration from it under braking so hoping to use the dial gauge .

I could always leave it on the ground or on axle stand to lift it up if needed.

is it not 10^6 so micrometer? or 10^9 nano.... ?

sorry I thought micrometer is the right term .
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DrDonnyBrago
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Joined: 03 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Random13 wrote:
I think my front disc is bent . visually it looks bent but I am not getting any vibration from it under braking so hoping to use the dial gauge .

I could always leave it on the ground or on axle stand to lift it up if needed.

is it not 10^6 so micrometer? or 10^9 nano.... ?

sorry I thought micrometer is the right term .



Micrometre is the correct term (1x10^-6 m) for a scientist.

I use the units μm, μl, μg and μM when I am using "huge" quantitites, otherwise it is nm, ng, nl and nM. At home if I use a micrometer I record the results in μm through habit....

Engineers are just much less precise Wink .
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
Please don't use the term micrometres to refer to a measurement of distance. A micrometer is a tool.

In all but the finest of engineering measurements are done in millimetres and decimals thereof. 0.25mm is 0.25mm not 250 microns.

If you need to refer to something in microns you won't be asking about them.


A micrometre IS the de-facto and utterly standard, internationally accepted SI notation for 1 x 10^-6 metres. = 1µm = 0.000001 metres.

The micron on the other hand, has not been an official term for expressing distance for more than 40 years.

Measuring distances as parts of a milimetre is as nonsensical as decimal inches or expressing them as metres to multiple decimal places. In fact expressing 0.01mm as 1x10^-5m would be more scientifically acceptable to my mind.

In this case, I feel that engineers are dead wrong and utterly non-scientific in their approach. While I appreciate that this is "how it's done." it doesn't make it any more right than Americans doggedly holding on to the imperial system.

What engineers need to do is re-name their tool* and get with the program. There is a well defined and agreed-upon sytem for measuring distances which has been in existance sinc ethe early 1960's and they aren't using it. Wink

*What the hell sort of a name is micrometer for a tool anyway? Do you need a magnifying glass to find it?

[/AUTISM]

Back on topic. Practicallity-wise. I find I can usually find a way to attach my dial guage indicator stand to one of the brake calliper mounting lugs on the forks, if you don't have access to a paddock stand.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Aff
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Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:

Measuring distances as parts of a milimetre is as nonsensical as decimal inches or expressing them as metres to multiple decimal places. In fact expressing 0.01mm as 1x10^-5m would be more scientifically acceptable to my mind.

In this case, I feel that engineers are dead wrong and utterly non-scientific in their approach. While I appreciate that this is "how it's done." it doesn't make it any more right than Americans doggedly holding on to the imperial system.


If I ever put this on a drawing I would be shot, and rightly so.


https://i.imgur.com/xucgIio.jpg
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Fizzer Thou
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Joined: 06 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The easiest way to check if a disc is bent is to use a white board marker.A black one is best.Draw a wavey line around the swept area of the disc,then rotate the wheel.The pads will rub away the white board marker where the high spots are.

I have used a dial gauge and magnetic stand to check the runout of a disc by using a paddock stand with a steel plate held steady by the stand.The only problem that I have come across is where the discs are drilled or slotted.
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Pete.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Pete. wrote:
Please don't use the term micrometres to refer to a measurement of distance. A micrometer is a tool.

In all but the finest of engineering measurements are done in millimetres and decimals thereof. 0.25mm is 0.25mm not 250 microns.

If you need to refer to something in microns you won't be asking about them.


A micrometre IS the de-facto and utterly standard, internationally accepted SI notation for 1 x 10^-6 metres. = 1µm = 0.000001 metres.

The micron on the other hand, has not been an official term for expressing distance for more than 40 years.

Measuring distances as parts of a milimetre is as nonsensical as decimal inches or expressing them as metres to multiple decimal places. In fact expressing 0.01mm as 1x10^-5m would be more scientifically acceptable to my mind.

In this case, I feel that engineers are dead wrong and utterly non-scientific in their approach. While I appreciate that this is "how it's done." it doesn't make it any more right than Americans doggedly holding on to the imperial system.

What engineers need to do is re-name their tool* and get with the program. There is a well defined and agreed-upon sytem for measuring distances which has been in existance sinc ethe early 1960's and they aren't using it. Wink

*What the hell sort of a name is micrometer for a tool anyway? Do you need a magnifying glass to find it?

[/AUTISM]

Back on topic. Practicallity-wise. I find I can usually find a way to attach my dial guage indicator stand to one of the brake calliper mounting lugs on the forks, if you don't have access to a paddock stand.


You can make all the scientific references you want, but we're talking engineering terms. A dial gauge is most commonly an engineering tool and engineers call a micrometer a micrometer, work in tenths or hundredths of a millimeter when the scale of the work or tolerances dictate and use the term microns or um only when necessary. To use any other terminology is just confusing - remember we are talking common useage for the purpose of solving a problem here not following academic textbooks or taking an exam.

You'll be hard-pressed to lay your hands on a mechanical dial gauge that resolves to micrometers nevermind being accurate to them in most workshops.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 20 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
microns rule.
You need to make sure your gauge is at right angles to what you are measuring.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
So what we're saying here is that engineering is not a proper science? Razz
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Iain.
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Joined: 04 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
Please don't use the term micrometres to refer to a measurement of distance. A micrometer is a tool.


Google lies!

https://i.imgur.com/N7kQJa5.jpg

Which is bad, because I use google to convert all forms of measurement. Neutral
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Aff
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2011
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Iain. wrote:

Google lies!

https://i.imgur.com/N7kQJa5.jpg

Which is bad, because I use google to convert all forms of measurement. Neutral


Google is right, it has just assumed you are derp when asking it to convert a unit of measurement into a tool.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Iain. wrote:
Pete. wrote:
Please don't use the term micrometres to refer to a measurement of distance. A micrometer is a tool.


Google lies!

https://i.imgur.com/N7kQJa5.jpg

Which is bad, because I use google to convert all forms of measurement. Neutral


Google is American.

The correct spelling of the SI unit of measurement is the metre and the correct spelling of the suffix used for a measuring device is a meter.

So in the whole world except 'murica:
Micrometre = 1/1000000 metres
Micrometer = A device for measuring very small thicknesses.

In 'murica they spell the distance and the measuring device the same way, "meter", because they are too idle to English properly.

So once again, the Americans, who don't even USE the fucking metric system, screw it up for everyone else. Probably deliberately.

In any case, they should rename the tool because micrometer literally translates as "Very small measuring device". I think they should follow the convention of naming tools after their inventor and call it a Gascoigne calliper.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Scootaloo
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Joined: 09 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's the problem: "Gascoigne calliper"

How could you expect the average american to say that! Are you mad?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 21 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
So what we're saying here is that engineering is not a proper science? Razz


No, I'm saying that you'll never hear the term micrometer used in an engineering shop unless it's to refer to a tool. If you walk in off the street and start talking in microns, micrometers etc you're just going to look silly. Ten microns (0.01mm) is finer than most people can reliably work to on a lathe or mill.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 24 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Google does tell lies. It thinks Spaghetti Junction is a restaurant.
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