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Unable to SORN car, do I really need a post office...

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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 10:27 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Unable to SORN car, do I really need a post office... Reply with quote

I loathe post offices, especially round here, queues of museum pieces paying for stamps because I can has no email.

Unfortunately I need to SORN my lovely blown engine on wheels but my gov.uk, he says no.

Apparently due to tax class or recent vehicle change etc. I bought it 12th December and have the V5 here so...

I've seen this before on here, can't remember the resolution!
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mjn51
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep you'll just have to queue up with us museum pieces, because we still need stamps, as paper still needs to be sent physically to certain offices.
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Aff
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had this on every vehicle I have tried to Tax/SORN since they went electronic.

Only option is the Post Office. Sad
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had this problem too, I think I went to the post office and they couldn't do it either. I think the person behind the desk just said they use the same web system that we use!

I ended up sending off some form stating I'm the new owner, and that I want SORN. Got a letter back a few weeks later saying all was sorted.

Found the letter, V890: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/360126/V890_250714.pdf
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably they've 'streamlined' the system until it broke. Mad
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 13:54 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkJ wrote:
I had this problem too, I think I went to the post office and they couldn't do it either. I think the person behind the desk just said they use the same web system that we use!

I ended up sending off some form stating I'm the new owner, and that I want SORN. Got a letter back a few weeks later saying all was sorted.

Found the letter, V890: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/360126/V890_250714.pdf


Might have to go down that route, useless sods won't allow me to do it there either, thanks new electronic system that doesn't work Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild thought.

“the required declaration” means a declaration in writing made to the Secretary of State [for Transport] by a person surrendering a vehicle licence or the keeper of a vehicle to the effect that (except for use under a trade licence) he does not for the time being intend to use or keep the vehicle on a public road and will not do so without first taking out a vehicle licence (or if appropriate a nil licence) for the vehicle;

“the required particulars” in relation to a vehicle are particulars furnished in writing to the Secretary of State of—
(a) the registration mark of the vehicle;
(b) the make and model of the vehicle; and
(c) the address of the premises at which the vehicle is to be kept


At the time of writing the Secretary of State for Transport is Patrick McLoughlin, the MP for Derbyshire Dales.

patrick.mcloughlin.mp@parliament.uk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_bug#Email_web_bugs for confirmation of delivery. I wonder how DVLA would argue against that. Thinking
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Re: Unable to SORN car, do I really need a post office... Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
I loathe post offices, especially round here, queues of museum pieces paying for stamps because I can has no email.


They're just establishing a pattern prior to the crypto ban so they can claim they're doing nothing different. Those old timers saw it coming before you.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 17:07 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
I wonder how DVLA would argue against that. Thinking


Email sent, lets see.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the big bad computer in Swansea said NO, I ended up writing to the DVLA instructing them to SORN one of my bikes forthwith. I kept a copy of the letter and the free proof of postage to troll them with when demands to pay a bribe began to hit the doormat.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joncrete Cungle wrote:
When the big bad computer in Swansea said NO, I ended up writing to the DVLA instructing them to SORN one of my bikes forthwith. I kept a copy of the letter and the free proof of postage to troll them with when demands to pay a bribe began to hit the doormat.


Did anything further happen?
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 22:48 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commuter_Tim wrote:
Joncrete Cungle wrote:
When the big bad computer in Swansea said NO, I ended up writing to the DVLA instructing them to SORN one of my bikes forthwith. I kept a copy of the letter and the free proof of postage to troll them with when demands to pay a bribe began to hit the doormat.


Did anything further happen?


I too am interested...

Email I sent;

Subject : As your online SORN does not work...

...and you enforce us to do your bidding.

Owner, Patrick Newman
Address, Rock down to, Electric Avenue, Kent, ME1N NGA
Vehicle, Volvo C70
Registration, Y394VKX
Doc Ref, 5014 846 ****

I want to SORN, however due to recent changes (yes, partly you
enforcing tax be removed at time of transfer causing these issues, ta)
I am unable to do so.

Are you happy for me to invoice yourselves for the time I am wasting
AND the trip to town in my untaxed vehicle, just for the lulz, to
visit the post office and attempt to do this, then get rejected
because they can't do it then having to fill in the relevant V890 form
to send to yourselves to get a refund on the tax that you are most
likely going to take regardless of me sending the letter or not.

In short, please sort out your useless system, refunding of tax is
more hassle than its worth and the person who passed that deserves to
be shot at close range with anything that fires a heavyweight
projectile.

Also, given that the law clearly states the below, I believe I am well within the law to request that you accept this as my written declaration of a SORN;
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/regulation/2/made

Taking into account this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_bug#Email_web_bugs

This should show when the mail was delivered and read, so acceptance as such. Embedded image is held locally so can retrieve access times if required.

You could kindly reply to confirm receipt of my SORN declaration, that
would be mega awesome sir.

Regards
Patrick "I paid my tax but my vehicle is now useless but you won't let
me tell you waaaaah" Newman.

I am probably out of line with some of that, likely gonna get me nowhere but was trololol none the less! Laughing Was sent to both parliament one and patrick.mcloughlin@dft.gsi.gov.uk
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Commuter_Tim wrote:
Joncrete Cungle wrote:
When the big bad computer in Swansea said NO, I ended up writing to the DVLA instructing them to SORN one of my bikes forthwith. I kept a copy of the letter and the free proof of postage to troll them with when demands to pay a bribe began to hit the doormat.


Did anything further happen?

I asked the DVLA to point out where in the relevant statute it said I had to SORN via sending in the DVLA own form / in the post office or online, they failed to answer. Sent me another invitation to bribe that was robustly replied to then lo and behold I received conformation that my bike was now SORNED.

The law says you have to inform them of

“the required particulars” in relation to a vehicle are particulars furnished in writing to the Secretary of State of—
(a) the registration mark of the vehicle;
(b) the make and model of the vehicle; and
(c) the address of the premises at which the vehicle is to be kept

So make sure you carry out your statutory obligations and don't give the coooonts any wriggle room.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc5j4mNejN1qbzm56o5_250.gif
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 26 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

DVLA make me mad, especially after I renewed my photocard / replaced lost counterpart and it came back with 3 years less full motorcycle entitlement than I have had. Should be fun when the insurance cartel start demanding papers please before even giving a quote at some point in the future. Sad
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:


Email I sent;


You had me at "just for the lulz".
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The above post is most likely nonsensical.

I ride a Bandit 600... badly.
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Re: Unable to SORN car, do I really need a post office... Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
I loathe post offices, especially round here, queues of museum pieces paying for stamps because I can has no email.

Unfortunately I need to SORN my lovely blown engine on wheels but my gov.uk, he says no.

Apparently due to tax class or recent vehicle change etc. I bought it 12th December and have the V5 here so...

I've seen this before on here, can't remember the resolution!



CBR250rr had same issue, not used for 14 years. They admitted on phone that they flag anything untaxed/not SORNed for a while. I made many attempts, told them on phone that the issue is now theirs. They sent me a form to be taken to post office (NOT posted), but I consider the amount of effort unreasonable and ignored it. To tax, same issue, but as I wanted to ride bike I went to postoffice, was a surprisingly pleasant experience. I rode there untaxed Thumbs Up
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the overpaid miserable sack of puss will reply but if he does, lol.

Thing is. It's taxed now without insurance. I've put as much effort in as I can be bothered with....and I'd like to test out rogerborgs idea if they take me, once again, to court. Wiggas got my address and number on speed dial by the looks of it.
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andyscooter
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PostPosted: 08:20 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had no trouble Confused

i must of broke it

sorry peeps Laughing
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 08:32 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Wiggas got my address and number on speed dial by the looks of it.


Yours may be No. 2, mine is still No. 1. Wink

HTH Thumbs Up
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
Wiggas got my address and number on speed dial by the looks of it.


Yours may be No. 2, mine is still No. 1. Wink

HTH Thumbs Up


Laughing That is more than likely true
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is actually precedent for serving papers by electronic means, in the case of TFS~V~Fabio Massimo De Biase. See here. the court papers were served via facebook.

It is in my opinion an irrelevance whether the email is read, it has been 'served' regardless. There are various bits of case law to back up this opinion, they mostly concern fax machines running out of paper but the contracts were upheld.


Last edited by sickpup on 09:29 - 27 Jan 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:


I too am interested...

Email I sent;

Subject : As your online SORN does not work...



I hope you started that with Dear Paddy....

....and ended it with Regards, Paddy.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 09:46 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It most definitely has arrived...

Quote:
xx Patrick Mcloughlin 2 mcloughlinp2@parliament.uk via emea01-db3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
5:09 PM (16 hours ago)

to me
This is an automatic acknowledgement so that you know I received your message.

If you are not a constituent and wish to contact the Department for Transport, please re-send your message to patrick.mcloughlin@dft.gsi.gov.uk

If you live in Derbyshire Dales and you have included your full postal address, I will read your message as soon as possible. If you have not included your name and address please re-send the entire e-mail including those details.

Thank you.
Patrick McLoughlin


The email was sent exactly as you read it above Laughing
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1198
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 27 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Quite possibly the funniest thing on the inter web yet this year!
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