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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:57 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: Who's a greenie then? |
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I was watching a programme (countryfile) that boiled my piss about how much the national grid was paying wind electricity suppliers to turn them off when they didn't need the elctricity. https://www.countryfile.com/news/debate-over-wind-turbines
It got me thinking about whether I was green or not.
Tree Hugger
Love nature and the countryside.
Hate seeing rabbit hutch house building on green field sites.
I have a solar panel on my boat.
Prefer animals to most humans, (especially self rightious do gooders, religious wankers and politically correct twats)
Lumberjack
Love motorbikes, cars, boats - all the boys toys
Hate wind turbines (and that was before I read above article)
Always been a firm believer that nuclear energy is the only sustainable power source for the world
Work for an oil major
Hate cyclists
Find this carbon allocation/swap system a total joke
Can't see the point of UK paying a fortune to reduce it's emmissions when everyone else pays lip service to it.
I don't think I'm very green
So who is pro renewables, think they are the way forward
and nessecary for the continuation of the planet or are they just an expensive sop to show we are 'doing our bit' for the envoironment? ____________________ Victory Cross Country American tractor. |
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 15:08 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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Sustainable Energy - Without the Hot Air
Website looks amateur but this book was written by the Regius professor of engineering at Cambridge university. (Dunno what a 'regius professor' is, but he is one..!)
It's a really, really, really good book, and you can download it from that link I've just given.
He explains exactly how the UK would need to change if we were to shift over to 100% renewables.
He takes a very neutral approach but the answer at the end is clear:
Either we all drastically reduce our energy consumption so that renewable sources can provide. AND accept that every field, mountain, lake, river, tidal stream, etc, will need to be utilised for wind/water/tidal/thermal/solar power generation.
Or we finally embrace nuclear. |
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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 Posted: 15:18 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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A few nifty facts from the book:
To power the UK with solar panels, we'd need a solar panel field the size of Wales. And it would need to be in the Sahara desert.
Even though we're an island nation, tidal power isn't enough because we can only harness the western side as that's where the mega waves come in from the Atlantic (most of which are blocked by Ireland anyway).
Wind power would do a fair job but it we would need the entire country to be blanketed in the things.
The amount of CO2 released per person, per year, through burning of fossil fuels for energy, is about 70 tons. Year on year, per person.
Nuclear power... the amount of energy used per person, per year, would use a pellet of nuclear fuel small enough to fit in your pocket.
The annual nuclear fuel consumption of the entire country would take up about as much space as a household living room or two. I think it's something like 13 tons of nuclear fuel, for whole country, each year. And only a fraction of that comes out as 'bad waste'.
Conclusion: Personally I'm nuclear all the way. Radioactive waste is a minor and hugely over-hyped threat compared to current pollution caused by burning of coal and gas.
It's the only realistic solution anyway, if you ask me.
EDIT: Although I'm not saying renewable sources are pointless. Actually renewable power is fantastic. But to keep going at current consumption levels, we're gonna have to use nuclear too. |
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| Tamsin |
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 Tamsin World Chat Champion

Joined: 07 Mar 2014 Karma :   
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 15:44 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | Actually renewable power is fantastic. |
It's that kind of blanket enthusiasm that's got us wind turbines that idle or spin to no purpose, and solar that will never recoup its energy investment.
Hydro is great. Pumped hydro is awesome. Tidal can be useful. Solar thermal, well, maybe in the south-east, half of the year. I'm interested in high altitude wind. Ground level wind and PV, meh, greenwashing for gas turbines. We should have built storage first, but there's not enough money or ecomental ostentation in that. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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| dydey90 |
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 dydey90 World Chat Champion

Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Karma :   
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 Posted: 16:12 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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We need to take the French and German approach. Lots of nukes while we build renewables. Although when Fukushima happened Germany dropped nukes like hot shit, must be scared of tsunamis.
We're getting there, slowly. Personally, I think the way forward is a solar furnace used to superheat air which is then piped into the power turbine section of a gas turbine, thus expanding, driving the turbine and generating highly efficient electricity.
Look on gridwatch.templar.co.uk for the current grid state, today we're drawing 46GW, which is about the maximum. 15GW is coal, 18GW is gas. If you assume a modern nuke generates 2GW per reactor then we could replace that with seventeen new stations completely. In practice, ten would probably do since there's next to no wind today and many of the gas sites are actually highly efficient and greenpeace approved. Probably couldn't shut a lot until the end of their contracts as some supply steam heating to industry, hospitals and housing. ____________________ This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750 |
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 16:17 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | I mean [renewable] more on a small scale. Say, if I were a farmer with lots of fields in a windy area, I'd gladly set up a couple of little turbines to power my sprinklers and things. |
One big turbine, please. And hopefully getting back more energy than it took to make it in China, burning cheap coal.
| Lord Percy wrote: | What I overall mean is that renewable certainly has it's place in many situations. |
Oh, I'm all in favour of shifting the pollution to China.
Fission for now. Use bankers as shielding and with the money that saves, offer a trillion Eurodollarpound prize for a working commercial fusion reactor, keep the long-hairs out of it. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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| Robster |
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 Robster World Chat Champion

Joined: 16 Dec 2013 Karma :  
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 Posted: 16:24 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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We just need a Nibbler or two
https://theinfosphere.org/images/thumb/a/af/Dark_Matter.jpg/225px-Dark_Matter.jpg
In all seriousness, I think Nuclear is the way to go, if only we could find a better/different way of harnessing, creating the energy without generating the waste material.
The way we use fossil fuels is still incredibly inefficient, a lot of the energy inside a piece of coal, or petrol is wasted - burning it is the most basic way of releasing energy; if there was a way of extracting the rest of the energy stored within the fuel we use.
I'm all for going green if its sustainable, big lover of outdoors, rubbish on walks up in the lakes pisses me off to no end, hate being wasteful. ____________________ Up the bum no babies. |
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| Itchy |
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 Itchy Super Spammer

Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:25 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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Don't worry China will solve it. I'm serious as China in 2009 was estimated to hit peak coal in 2025 that was at 2009 consumption.
As a result they are ploughing massive amounts of money into thorium reactors. Two prototypes have been developed and are going into the test stage in May later this year.
They hope to scale them up if the prototypes perform and build a second bigger prototype and get a commercial version running by 2027. ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 16:29 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | | dydey90 wrote: | Personally, I think the way forward is a solar furnace |
Solar furnace is less efficient than photovoltaic because a solar furnace just reflects and concentrates the sun |
Yes, all the wavelengths reflected by the mirrors.
| Lord Percy wrote: | onto a boiler |
Or initially onto molten salt which acts as a storage device.
| Lord Percy wrote: | Whereas standard solar power converts solar rays directly into electricity, pretty much. |
What wavelengths, and how efficiently?
| Lord Percy wrote: | A solar panel field, with a surface area the same as that of a solar furnace, would be more efficient than the solar furnace. |
What happens to both of them when the sun goes behind a cloud, or under the horizon?
What advantages does that give a molten salt thermal plant over PV? Specifically, what don't you need as much of with thermal?
Answer:
˙sǝuıqɹnʇ sɐƃ ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 16:52 - 10 Feb 2015; edited 1 time in total |
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| ScaredyCat |
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 ScaredyCat World Chat Champion

Joined: 19 May 2012 Karma :   
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| Polarbear |
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 Polarbear Super Spammer

Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Karma :  
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| oldpink |
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 oldpink World Chat Champion

Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Karma :   
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

Joined: 03 Aug 2012 Karma :  
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| Ste |
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 Ste Not Work Safe

Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :    
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| Rogerborg |
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 Rogerborg nimbA

Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :    
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 Posted: 16:59 - 10 Feb 2015 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | Although I think your Andasol example isn't a solar furnace either. |
Oh, right, dydey90 said furnace. Fair enough, I'm not a passionate fan of straight furnaces. Andasol seems like a pragmatic solution, which I'm all in favour of. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| orac |
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 orac World Chat Champion
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| ScaredyCat |
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 ScaredyCat World Chat Champion

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| oldpink |
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 oldpink World Chat Champion

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| orac |
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 orac World Chat Champion
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| The999Kid |
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 The999Kid World Chat Champion

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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 238 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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