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| joezxr |
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joezxr
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 Posted: 09:10 - 19 Mar 2015  Post subject: Front end click?! |
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I have a Kawasaki 636 2003 B1H and whenever I slam the brakes on there is a really loud click noise!
Iv changed the wheel bearings, the headstock bearings and just serviced the calipers and forks and basically stripped the whole front end down and build it back up but it STILL does it!! 
I'm actually getting worried now has anyone else had this before or have any idea what it could be? |
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| Matt B |
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Matt B
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| carlosvalderr... |
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carlosvalderr...
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| Posted: 10:46 - 19 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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I've seen something like this on bikes when the fit between the top yoke and stem has opened out.
The stem is usually a snug fit in to the yoke, but if there's too much clearance, or the clamp load from the top nut isn't enough, you can get a knocking type noise. I've not seen it on a sportsbike though, so far only on long travel forks, such as adventure and offroaders.
You can eliminate it as a cause by improving the tightness of the joint, in the past I've used shim, or gauge steel. It's very thin accurate sheet steel, and something like a 0.1mm ring of it can be slid inside the yoke to create a tighter fit.
Otherwise, just wrapping some sellotape round the stem, or knocking a bit of matchstick between the stem and yoke will be enough to allow you to hear a difference and know if it's an issue.
At your own risk, you could also just bollock the top nut up massively to increase the clamp load on the yoke. Thread stripping or damage is possible though... |
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Snorty
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FlightRisk
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CaNsA
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| joezxr |
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joezxr
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| Posted: 15:56 - 22 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies
Iv had a feel of the disc and they do not move with the force of my arms so I don't think its them!
Iv also played around with tightness of the headstock and its still always there >
It seems to happen most when say I push the bike up a curb when parking its like a big click from the right hand side I'd say!
The shims in the fork have not been replaced as the mechanic said the forks internals were in good condition!
As said it could be the pads rattling around but they do have retaining pins hmmm, Im gonna get it on a headstock paddock and give things a pull see what I can find! |
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Matt B
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joezxr
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| carlosvalderr... |
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carlosvalderr...
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Commuter_Tim
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Matt B
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Cyclingbiker
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chris-red
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joezxr
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CaNsA
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| Posted: 17:44 - 25 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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Sounds like someone just cant be arsed splitting the forks again  |
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| carlosvalderr... |
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carlosvalderr...
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| Posted: 07:48 - 26 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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| joezxr wrote: |
The triple tree has double pinch bolts on the lower yoke, and singles on the top that are all torqued up and Then the big old locking but in the middle of the top yoke! No movement to be found |
It's the joint beneath the big nut in the middle which I've found issue with, however, never with a sportsbike so far.
The fit between the yoke and stem is a clearance fit, and the stem is only stopped from being slid back and forth in the yoke by the friction of the surface interaction between the nut and yoke. Contamination, wear and under tightening can all allow this joint to slip.
However, the only bikes I've seen this on have been a TDM850, a Yamaha Tenere 660, and a DRz400. All have long-ish forks, and hence a long lever arm to generate the moment to make the joint slip. The symptoms of when it happened are identical to yours though.
All showed signs of the yoke being 'polished' by the motion. My assumption of the cause was a combination of wear, under-tightening, and unfortunate tolerance stacks in the bike from new. On a sportsbike, I guess an under tightened nut and a load of wheelies...
It's not too hard to check if you have feeler gauges. Pop just the yoke nut off, and see if a thin feeler will go between the stem and yoke bore at the front of the stem, probably opposite the ignition barrel. If you've no feeler gauges, try a fag paper folded over a few times, kitchen foil or something similarly thin.
If you can't check it, just clean up the threads and mating face on the nut and yoke, apply copperslip to the threads ONLY, not the contact face, then tighten it down to factory spec +20%. This may not fix it if it even is the issue, but it might be worth a 5 minute job.
It may be a very small gap, but closing it off or stopping the movement fixed all three of the bikes. However, it's pretty rare as an issue, so I imagine a problem with the fork slider bushes is more likely. Could be worth a quick check though to eliminate it.
Good luck. |
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| joezxr |
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joezxr
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| Posted: 10:43 - 26 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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| carlosvalderrama wrote: | | joezxr wrote: |
The triple tree has double pinch bolts on the lower yoke, and singles on the top that are all torqued up and Then the big old locking but in the middle of the top yoke! No movement to be found |
It's the joint beneath the big nut in the middle which I've found issue with, however, never with a sportsbike so far.
The fit between the yoke and stem is a clearance fit, and the stem is only stopped from being slid back and forth in the yoke by the friction of the surface interaction between the nut and yoke. Contamination, wear and under tightening can all allow this joint to slip.
However, the only bikes I've seen this on have been a TDM850, a Yamaha Tenere 660, and a DRz400. All have long-ish forks, and hence a long lever arm to generate the moment to make the joint slip. The symptoms of when it happened are identical to yours though.
All showed signs of the yoke being 'polished' by the motion. My assumption of the cause was a combination of wear, under-tightening, and unfortunate tolerance stacks in the bike from new. On a sportsbike, I guess an under tightened nut and a load of wheelies...
It's not too hard to check if you have feeler gauges. Pop just the yoke nut off, and see if a thin feeler will go between the stem and yoke bore at the front of the stem, probably opposite the ignition barrel. If you've no feeler gauges, try a fag paper folded over a few times, kitchen foil or something similarly thin.
If you can't check it, just clean up the threads and mating face on the nut and yoke, apply copperslip to the threads ONLY, not the contact face, then tighten it down to factory spec +20%. This may not fix it if it even is the issue, but it might be worth a 5 minute job.
It may be a very small gap, but closing it off or stopping the movement fixed all three of the bikes. However, it's pretty rare as an issue, so I imagine a problem with the fork slider bushes is more likely. Could be worth a quick check though to eliminate it.
Good luck. |
Hmmm I see where your coming from but wouldn't the tapered bearings sat in their braces being torqued in by the pressure of the top nut stop this problem happening?
Either way I'll check it out when I get a minute!
Last edited by joezxr on 12:06 - 26 Mar 2015; edited 1 time in total |
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P.
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joezxr
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| carlosvalderr... |
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carlosvalderr...
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| Posted: 12:43 - 26 Mar 2015 Post subject: |
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| joezxr wrote: |
Hmmm I see where your coming from but wouldn't the tapered bearings sat in their braces being torqued in by the pressure of the top nut stop this problem happening?
Either way I'll check it out when I get a minute! |
The top nut, in theory, has no effect on the bearings.
The bearings will have an adjuster nut, to set the bearing preload, which is typically set at a low value, say 5-15Nm on a SAC ball bearing, a little less on a taper roller. Then a locking nut, with or without a washer in between to 'lock' the adjustment and prevent it slackening off. This will be much tighter, probably 40Nm or so, and the bottom nut may have to be held still while the locking nut is tightened.
The yoke fits on top of these, and the top nut simply clamps the yoke to the locknut, and is whacked up to anything from 60-110Nm depenfding on the bike.
Theoretically, the locknut isolates the adjuster nut from being affected by the big topnut clamp load, however, the tension that's put into the stem stretches it slightly taking pressure off the drive flank of the adjuster thread profile, and so will actually take a bit of clamp load off the bearings.
You're right in that there is a clearance gap between the inner upper bearing race and the stem, but it's far smaller than between the stem and yoke, and as such is far less likely to be having any effect.
If you're anywhere near leicester, I'll offer a hand.  |
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P.
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| SQL |
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SQL
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 10 years, 279 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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