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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Helmet help Reply with quote

Hello. New biker, only been riding CBT since October. Little bit old for a CBT but only just got the bug.

I apologise in advance if this topic has been done before but I need the help of the experts.

I was looking up helmet legislation as I want a new helmet to go with my others. I understand about BSI and ECE etc. All the official government stuff I've seen requires this. No problem.

However, I wish to buy one of those retro-style half helmets with goggles. Still ECE approved of course. But I read on a helmet buyer's guide page that half helmets are not road legal in the UK? I'm sure I've seen lads on their big boys bike wearing them. So please guys, help! Is an ECE approved half helmet legal here?
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waffles
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ones like this? Yes, they are legal in the UK. The blurb at the bottom of the pages states that it is ECE approved Thumbs Up
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Open faces and jets can get ECE approval so yes are road legal here.

Proper "half" "shorty" or "German" helmets cannot get ECE approval so are not road legal.

Odds of getting in trouble are low though so wear what you like.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The legalities of motorcycle helmets for road use in the UK are as follows.

BSI is still around, old helmets are still legal to use on the road with this kite mark although with a shelf life of only a few years I would not recommend using an old BSI helmet.

ECE22.05. The majority of motorcycle helmets for road use will carry a sticker, or a label in the strap that has this marking on it or a version of it. A circle with E (and a number) is pretty much the same thing.

SHARP is another system in use for the UK. It is a 1 - 5 star system, the higher the stars the better it has performed in the various test they do.

The ECE 22.05 helmets can be various styles, the 3 main style are the open face (retro) style, full face or flip up system helmet.

If you are looking into buying a new helmet make sure it fits correctly. That is the most important thing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1807/made

Marked as British Standard 6658:1985

Marked as ECE 22.05 (J in your case)

Or: "is of a type manufactured for use by persons on motor cycles which by virtue of its shape, material and construction could reasonably be expected to afford to the wearer a degree of protection from accidental injury similar to or greater than that provided by a helmet [as above]"

It's typically a £100 non-endorsable fine and the chances of you being convicted is minimal.

Wear what you want, just don't go chin surfing in a piss-pot lid.
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talkToTheHat
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are talking about growing a beard, upen face and a flyscreen will cause it to fly up and get in your face.

If you're using that bike as an alternative to a fag hag posing as your girlfriend, I suggest you avoid the rob halford look. It won't keep you plausibly closited.
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Val
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is legal. Not sure how wise is though.
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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh guys, I have an open facer already Smile I was referring to the half helmet German style tourers. I've found a few online ne claiming DOT and/or ECE approved.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wouldn't perchance by looking at the shiny helmets direct from China that claim to "meet & exceed DOT, ECE, AS/NZS1698 standards"?

Whether they do or don't (I expect they don't), for them to be legal in the UK then they have to be marked as ECE 22.05 (J).

If they're so marked, you won't be convicted. Your noggin, your choice.
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josh95
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always cringe when i see people wearing open faced helmets, Im a new rider myself but I would rather keep my teeth then look "cool".
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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

the one I'm looking at is direct from America.

As for my open facer, it's less about looking cool and more about how claustrophobic I feel in the full face I own. I wear it when it's wet and dark usually.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 27 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, but you can find an open face that offers a lot more protection than a piss pot. Have you tried a selection? MX helmets are also a bit airier than fully closed. It's not race-rep or piss-pot with nothing in between.
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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 02:41 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I genuinely do not wish to be rude, but I have already said I have an open faced helmet a couple of times. It's a good one that I got on recommendation from a knowledgable chap like yourself. It's the helmet I use most, and intend to use most.

I have my reasons for wanting a "piss pot", and it will be by no means my regular helmet. I just want to know if there's any poi t spending the money or if it'll just get me into trouble.


Thanks for your help so far though Smile
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 04:14 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

josh95 wrote:
I always cringe when i see people wearing open faced helmets, Im a new rider myself but I would rather keep my teeth then look "cool".

Then you are a 'red-mist-rider', letting emotion rule your riding; so you will go faster than is wise when exited, and slower than is necessary when you are scared, and rarely make good decisions except by accident, because you wont 'think' you just 'feel'...

Safety comes fro USING your head, not burying it in the sand of an over-priced polystyrene cup and feeling' you got safety covered.

There's two components in a crash-helmet; First is the packing, usually polystyrene, like a disposable coffee cup. Absorbs energy when its crushed, rather like a suspension damper. Second is the outer shell, that holds the packing in place, and resists 'abrasion' in an accident, while deforming to allow the impact energy to be absorbed crushing the polystyrene.

Look at a full-face helmet.. there is no 'packing' material in the chin-piece. It's not really offering ALL the protection you might think.

Bridging the sides of the helmet, it may make the shell stiffer; but that's not necessarily a good thing as you WANT the shell to deform in an impact and crush shock-absorbing foam;

Puts 'something' in front of that bit of your face that might got worn away in abrasion before face, if you land on it; but, that single scenario it might offer a little of the protection you presume it offers, is slight, at best; instinctively we 'look away from danger' and most impact & abrasion is taken on the cheek part of a hat in most offs.

Meanwhile.. that chin-piece restricts the field of view to a letter-box, often restricted further by the visor mechanism, while 'misting' can hamper vision even further.

Open face hat has nothing to obscure the field of view; it lets you see the most you can in your peripheral vision....

I actually wear a Shark Evo 'flip'; chin piece rotates right around to the back of the helmet and is 'streamlined' into the shell, so that you can comfortably wear it as an open face helmet right up to 70 mph or more.... and I rarely wear it n the 'full-face' position, and it bugs the heck out of me when I do flip it down, and I glance down to see my clocks and see helmet, instead and have to tilt my head and take my eyes off the road.

NOW, in the greater gambit of all that is safety... to my mind,'safety' comes from NOT CRASHING... not having some plastic or foam or leather somewhere that, wont stop you getting hurt.. you crash... it GONNA hurt! But little bit of leather or foam or plastic MIGHT, save that hurt from being as big.

So, an open face hat that gives me the widest unobstructed view of what's gong on around me, without having to take my eyes off the ball or move my head so far to peer into the periphery? THAT is 'safety'.. those vital milliseconds of response time to see and react to whatever hazard is likely to make me crash... and more... no visor wont mist up.. so I don't have my wide field of view obscured, or more, my attention diverted from watching what's going on, more, faffing with a visor trying to get it to stay open a crack, or fiddling with vents.

THEN... on the road.. I have the wind in my face. its like a heads-up display for the speedo! I don't have to glance down at the clocks so often, the wind on my wiskers is telling me how quick I'm going... only need to 'check' for the added precision demanded by them damn yellow boxes! BUT, wind in my face, exposed, vulnerable, in direct contact with my surroundings and yes, FEELING a bit more vulnerable.... good incentive to be a BIT more sensible to start with...

You cant BUY safety.. safety comes from NOT crashing.. and you get that 'safety' from not taking stupid risks, in ignorance or excitement.. so you cant buy it, only 'waste' it NOT using your head, NOT thinking, and letting 'feelings' rule the roost.

Which s all very logical and rational, and wont make a blind bit of difference to 99% of people who have the same instinctive reaction to open face hats, who have a gut reaction then look for facts that justify that gut reaction rather than THINK for themselves....

However... their loss.... If you haven't ridden lidless or in an open, to my mind you have never ridden... sticking a full-face on is a bit like getting into a very small cramped car without a heater...

I defy any-one to give a open face hat a go.. you can get UK Road legal ones for barely £20 and treat it as disposable, and FEEL the difference for yourself.. and you never know.. you MIGHT like it!
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 06:42 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wants a Beard wrote:
Yeh guys, I have an open facer already Smile I was referring to the half helmet German style tourers. I've found a few online ne claiming DOT and/or ECE approved.


No German lid will pass ECE. DOT is different.

Like I said though odds of getting in trouble are tiny. I wear this sometimes

https://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh504/wr6133/LPIC5141_zpsobx8uuvi.jpg

You can get pretty small ECE open face lids. Things like the Caberg Breeze (in the back on the following photo) are a lot smaller than a traditional open face.

https://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh504/wr6133/LPIC5139_zps8nopi0sr.jpg
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:44 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
No German lid will pass ECE.

Happily/sadly, it doesn't matter if it does, just that it's marked as such.

I've never found any way to verify that a lid has/hasn't passed any ECE tests, and I'd be astonished if the CPS or Fiscal could either.

OP can be as b-b-b-bad to the b-b-b-one as he likes, no realistic chance of conviction.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up guys. Good feedback from lads in the know.
As I said, I wouldn't be wearing one often IF I got one. It's for a very specific purpose. I'll be sticking with my safer one the most often.


Cheers Guys!
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Wants a Beard
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 28 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up guys. Good feedback from lads in the know.
As I said, I wouldn't be wearing one often IF I got one. It's for a very specific purpose. I'll be sticking with my safer one the most often.


Cheers Guys!
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Jerry B
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PostPosted: 08:07 - 29 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am old enough or read that as stupid enough when we were still protesting against being made to wear helmets and have been done for not wearing one.

I used to wear open face lids quite often even though I once had an off in a full face which scraped the chin piece which made me think that open face lids are for fools. However I have ridden in an open face many times since then though not for about 9 or 10 years. I am often tempted to get one again and might do so, still thinking about it as the appeal of being out in the wind is still there and as none of my bikes are modern speed machines it would not be too out of place and as mentioned above you know when you are going fast without the dislocation from reality that modern bikes give you. I currently have a nearly new AGV fullface which is great but some days it might be nice to just pop out in an open face.

Each to their own.
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recman
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 29 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wants a Beard wrote:
I have my reasons for wanting a "piss pot"



Wants a Beard wrote:
It's for a very specific purpose.


Come on fella, spill the beans or I'll just assume its for Friday night sexy time.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 29 Apr 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
Wants a Beard wrote:
I have my reasons for wanting a "piss pot"



Wants a Beard wrote:
It's for a very specific purpose.


Come on fella, spill the beans or I'll just assume its for Friday night sexy time.


I'm guessing wear legal lid till round corner from rally, then stops changes and rides in pretending to spit flies.
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