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YBR--toasted engine?

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lincsrider
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
So, I was riding my 06 YBR (carbed version) down an A-road for around 30 min, hit 60 mph in 4th, shifted up into 5th, when I heard the noise of something internal obviously falling apart, followed by a complete loss of power. When I tried to start her up again, I was met with an ominous clanking sound--though it did pull for a few feet before the power cut again. Further attempts at starting just lead to more horrible mechanical noises--now all I get is a 'click' when I try the starter.

There was smoke pouring out of the dipstick hole when I checked the oil level, so I suppose it had catastrophically overheated. In truth, the bike never sounded 'right' ever since I adjusted the valves and took the engine cover off to clean the oil strainer. Also, earlier that day, I did have difficulty changing gears, having to press quite hard on the gear lever--but I adjusted the clutch cable and assumed all was well.

I'm fearing the worst TBH; but I could really do with some sympathetic advice from someone who isn't mechanically clueless, as I am. Sad
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SQL
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-YBR-125-ENGINE-16000-GENUINE-MILES-CARB-MODEL-2006-YBR125-CARBURETTOR-/301629890870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463a8ae136
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lincsrider
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, I suspected as much. Sad

But if the engine blew after only 33k on the clock I won't bother spending a small fortune on a replacement (+ labour costs.) I'm just annoyed that I've wasted £1400 on a piece of Chinese crap that only ran for 6 months.

Still, on the plus side, I'll get nice and fit cycling to work over the next few weeks.
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SQL
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
What happens if you kick start it?
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lincsrider
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
The previous owner removed the kick, but it won't bump start either. It does seem there is some compression there though?
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
lincsrider wrote:
In truth, the bike never sounded 'right' ever since I adjusted the valves and took the engine cover off to clean the oil strainer.


You can't blame the bike for being a Chinese piece of shit if it worked before you took it apart, and not once you had put it back together.

Most engines will break if you take them apart and put them back together incorrectly
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lincsrider
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 24 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
Northern Monkey wrote:

You can't blame the bike for being a Chinese piece of shit if it worked before you took it apart, and not once you had put it back together.

Most engines will break if you take them apart and put them back together incorrectly


I did some basic servicing a couple of months ago as with any other bike--I hardly stripped the engine down. If I'm guilty of anything, it's thrashing it on NSL roads--but I thought the engine was made to handle that? After all, my 1990 CG managed the same treatment for 3 1/2 years without complaint.
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Pigeon
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Joined: 27 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 25 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
lincsrider wrote:
In truth, the bike never sounded 'right' ever since I adjusted the valves and took the engine cover off to clean the oil strainer.


If I'd adjusted valves on a bike and instantly noticed it didn't sound right, I'd have re-checked them. Particularly as it's 10min job.
And if they were ok, worked backwards through the things done prior to noticing an issue.

Quote:

Also, earlier that day, I did have difficulty changing gears, having to press quite hard on the gear lever--but I adjusted the clutch cable and assumed all was well.


Could have been oil starvation. Having cleaned the strainer and put oil back in, were you definitely sure the level was right. Also, did you remove the oil bleed bolt at the top of the exhaust port to make sure the oil was circulating?

Doesn't really help you.

Could be mashed valves. Could be a seized engine. Might have blown a hole in the piston (unlikely) and you could do a compression test. But it sounds like the engine isn't even turning over (ie seized), so pointless to do compression test.

Put it on centre stand, bung it in 4th gear and rotate rear wheel by hand if you can. If you can't, then you might as well whip the head off for giggles as it's only going to take 15mins.
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Carvel
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 25 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
As mentioned by Pigeon this is down to your incompetence.

Head and barrel off to assess the damage.
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lincsrider
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 07:25 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
Pigeon wrote:

If I'd adjusted valves on a bike and instantly noticed it didn't sound right, I'd have re-checked them. Particularly as it's 10min job.
And if they were ok, worked backwards through the things done prior to noticing an issue.


The valves sounded off to me compared to other bikes I've owned, but the clearances were definitely within the specified range (they were too tight before.)

Quote:


Also, earlier that day, I did have difficulty changing gears, having to press quite hard on the gear lever--but I adjusted the clutch cable and assumed all was well.

Could have been oil starvation. Having cleaned the strainer and put oil back in, were you definitely sure the level was right. Also, did you remove the oil bleed bolt at the top of the exhaust port to make sure the oil was circulating?

Doesn't really help you.

Could be mashed valves. Could be a seized engine. Might have blown a hole in the piston (unlikely) and you could do a compression test. But it sounds like the engine isn't even turning over (ie seized), so pointless to do compression test.

Put it on centre stand, bung it in 4th gear and rotate rear wheel by hand if you can. If you can't, then you might as well whip the head off for giggles as it's only going to take 15mins.


Yeah, the oil was at the correct level--but I didn't check the bleed bolt.

Anyway, after a little inspection this morning, the top end of the engine looks okay; and it does seem to turn over as it should, as I can hear and feel compression through the spark plug hole as I move the rear wheel. But the bike refuses to start--the starter motor either clicks or whirls a bit (depending on the compression stroke); and after several more attempts at bump starting, the best I got was a half-chug.

So I'm at a loss. Would a transmission or gearbox problem prevent the bike from firing up? Or would the clattering\clanking sound I heard before the power loss suggest a temporary seizure?
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Northern Monkey
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Joined: 17 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
lincsrider wrote:
Northern Monkey wrote:

You can't blame the bike for being a Chinese piece of shit if it worked before you took it apart, and not once you had put it back together.

Most engines will break if you take them apart and put them back together incorrectly


I did some basic servicing a couple of months ago as with any other bike--I hardly stripped the engine down. If I'm guilty of anything, it's thrashing it on NSL roads--but I thought the engine was made to handle that? After all, my 1990 CG managed the same treatment for 3 1/2 years without complaint.


All 125s get thrashed all the time. My XT125 used the same engine as a YBR and got thrashed everywhere.

I've done a 400 mile day on my MSX125 where it was at full throttle for 90% of the day

YBR engines are bomb proof under normal circumstances. It only broke after you took it apart, put it back together, then continued to use it when it was making strange noises.

You can hardly blame the engine.

On a more helpful note. Is the battery flat?
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 10:42 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
lincsrider wrote:
Also, earlier that day, I did have difficulty changing gears, having to press quite hard on the gear lever--but I adjusted the clutch cable and assumed all was well.


I think the oil pump failed, not lubing the gearbox caused the difficulties with gear changes and I also think the head was running completely dry and that's why it potatoed itself. Thinking

Drain the oil and check for bits of metal. Thumbs Up

Overheating is out of question, it was designed to work at 30°C+ and slowly moving traffic. Thumbs Up
____________________
'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
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lincsrider
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Joined: 24 May 2015
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
Northern Monkey wrote:

All 125s get thrashed all the time. My XT125 used the same engine as a YBR and got thrashed everywhere.

I've done a 400 mile day on my MSX125 where it was at full throttle for 90% of the day

YBR engines are bomb proof under normal circumstances. It only broke after you took it apart, put it back together, then continued to use it when it was making strange noises.

You can hardly blame the engine.

On a more helpful note. Is the battery flat?


If I'd knackered it by tinkering then I of course take full responsibility. But we're talking basic maintenance here. But then, I don't know what the previous owner had been up to before I bought the machine.

Nope. But as I said previously, it won't bump start either (although it nearly wants to.)

RhynoCZ wrote:

I think the oil pump failed, not lubing the gearbox caused the difficulties with gear changes and I also think the head was running completely dry and that's why it potatoed itself. Thinking

Drain the oil and check for bits of metal. Thumbs Up

Overheating is out of question, it was designed to work at 30°C+ and slowly moving traffic. Thumbs Up


Hmm. That would certainly explain what happened, but is such a failure considered normal on a 125 with fairly moderate mileage?

I saw no flakings when I drained the oil this morning.

The reason I suspected overheating was that at the time of the incident, I checked the dipstick hole and white smoke was pouring out for several minutes.

At this point I'm wondering if a Jianshe\AJS or other Chinese copy engine would fit the bike--my local scooter shop could probably find one for a decent price. Confused
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, oil reduces friction, friction generates heat, no oil means no reduction of the friction and you get yourself a heat generator. Thumbs Up
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Re: YBR--toasted engine? Reply with quote
lincsrider wrote:

At this point I'm wondering if a Jianshe\AJS or other Chinese copy engine would fit the bike--my local scooter shop could probably find one for a decent price. Confused

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-YBR-125-ENGINE-16000-GENUINE-MILES-CARB-MODEL-2006-YBR125-CARBURETTOR-/301629890870?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463a8ae136

put a proper one in
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk
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Ed Case
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 26 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Unless you're skilled enough to do an engine rebuild (correctly) it looks like time to hit fleabay for another 'lump' and hope it's a good 'un you're getting.
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