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Average Speed Cameras

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Parson
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Average Speed Cameras Reply with quote

I've always looked at average speed cameras which take images of the front of vehicles and wondered how they would catch motorcycles, as bikes only have a number plate at the rear.

So, can they catch bikers? Has anyone actually deliberately sped through a zone to test the theory that they cant?
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Mudshark
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=298263&highlight=average+speed+cameras

dydey90 wrote:
I havent risked a gatso, but can confirm that no fucks are given should you ride through front facing average speed cameras. I don't think they even register your presence, since they just scan for plates.

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Matt B
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The front facing ones cant read the plate so I'm sure some people would just choose to ignore them...

However, did notice the other week that the average speed cameras in the roadworks on the M3 point in the other direction and read rear plates. In that case it would be wise not to ignore it.
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Mudshark
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:

However, did notice the other week that the average speed cameras in the roadworks on the M3 point in the other direction and read rear plates. In that case it would be wise not to ignore it.


then they are not the ones that "take images of the front of vehicles" that the OP asked about Wink Wink
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I regularly go through a 50mph section of the M1 on the back wheel at a sensible, yet slightly elevated speed and haven't had a ticket yet, in support of my above statement.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be a bit careful when coming to the end of an average speed section. If I were a traffic copper out to hit my totally non-existent targets, that's where I'd set up shop.
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudshark wrote:
Matt B wrote:

However, did notice the other week that the average speed cameras in the roadworks on the M3 point in the other direction and read rear plates. In that case it would be wise not to ignore it.


then they are not the ones that "take images of the front of vehicles" that the OP asked about Wink Wink


Careful now, on some stretches of motorway they alternate between front facing and rear facing(!). The first one is always front facing too, to give a false sense of security...
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vracktal wrote:


Careful now, on some stretches of motorway they alternate between front facing and rear facing(!). The first one is always front facing too, to give a false sense of security...


Yup, the days of front facing average speed cameras seem to be pretty well done with.
I noticed back in the Spring that much of the South has gone over to rear facing cameras, it was noticeably different from my meanderings last Autumn Sad
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the A23 had cameras I was never quite sure which direction they were facing - the northbound side did look like they were pointing straight at you in the southbound lane. Possible they could see both? Shocked

Remember reading that someone was caught after repeatedly speeding the opposing direction of a normal camera, identified by his combination of bike and clothing.. so I wouldn't take the piss too much Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 28 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramdra wrote:
Remember reading that someone was caught after repeatedly speeding the opposing direction of a normal camera, identified by his combination of bike and clothing.. so I wouldn't take the piss too much Laughing

GATSOs, not approved for front facing use. He was convicted because he was idiotic enough to admit it.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 02:38 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have never received a ticket from any average speed cameras. However increasingly I've noted the presence of rear-facing cameras. Keep an eye out for them. Because they're really interesting to look at, of course, not because of the kitten killing speeds involved.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudshark wrote:
then they are not the ones that "take images of the front of vehicles" that the OP asked about Wink Wink


Entering into a general discussion about average speed cameras because since when did a BCF discussion ever stay 100% on topic? Rolling Eyes
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staffo
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
kramdra wrote:
Remember reading that someone was caught after repeatedly speeding the opposing direction of a normal camera, identified by his combination of bike and clothing.. so I wouldn't take the piss too much Laughing

GATSOs, not approved for front facing use. He was convicted because he was idiotic enough to admit it.


Think with out admission of guilt its purely circumstantial? And that is the same of any front facing camera.

Staffy50 is not a lawyer, nor does he care enough to verify the above
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

staffy50 wrote:
Think with out admission of guilt its purely circumstantial? And that is the same of any front facing camera.

No, just the old GATSO cameras.

Truvelo is front facing, SPECS and the other ANPRs can be front or rear.

GATSOs can be set to flash on approaching traffic, but the readings can't be used to prosecute. However, if the local Dibble have solved every real crime, track you down, and you're daft enough to blub and admit it...

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2011/february/feb1611-speeding-biker-fingered-/

https://metro.co.uk/2011/02/16/speeding-biker-paul-collins-who-made-obscene-gesture-at-speed-camera-fined-639217/

Granted, that could be a Truvelo picture.
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staffo
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
staffy50 wrote:
Think with out admission of guilt its purely circumstantial? And that is the same of any front facing camera.

No, just the old GATSO cameras.

Truvelo is front facing, SPECS and the other ANPRs can be front or rear.

GATSOs can be set to flash on approaching traffic, but the readings can't be used to prosecute. However, if the local Dibble have solved every real crime, track you down, and you're daft enough to blub and admit it...

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2011/february/feb1611-speeding-biker-fingered-/

https://metro.co.uk/2011/02/16/speeding-biker-paul-collins-who-made-obscene-gesture-at-speed-camera-fined-639217/

Granted, that could be a Truvelo picture.



Hmm, okay "not me but someone I know" has gone past Truvelo cameras above the speed limit and has heard nothing.

My point is, while they have the picture of the bike speeding (if it can even ping bikes) there is no proof of whos/who it is. If they then find footage from another angle down the road showing the bike, rider and number plate, then its circumstantial, as you can say, while the does look a little like me, with the same bike, leathers and helmet going through the camera, it is in fact, not.

That then leaves it to the police or whoever does the fines to prove it is you, and not someone else similarly dressed on a similar bike.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

staffy50 wrote:
That then leaves it to the police or whoever does the fines to prove it is you, and not someone else similarly dressed on a similar bike.


6 points and up to £1,000 for not identifying who was driving/riding...


.. and now it's down to you to explain why you can't identify them...
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staffo
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
staffy50 wrote:
That then leaves it to the police or whoever does the fines to prove it is you, and not someone else similarly dressed on a similar bike.


6 points and up to £1,000 for not identifying who was driving/riding...


.. and now it's down to you to explain why you can't identify them...


Nope, you have misunderstood. Its up to them to prove its you in the speeding photograph, with out the registration, as that is just a picture of a bike and rider.

As I said above, if they have pictures of your bike and reg after the fact, then it's just circumstantial that it could of been that bike and rider they saw speeding. There is no proof that it was the same bike that was speeding.
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staffo
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

staffy50 wrote:


Nope, you have misunderstood. Its up to them to prove its you in the speeding photograph, with out the registration, as that is just a picture of a bike and rider.

As I said above, if they have pictures of your bike and reg after the fact, then it's just circumstantial that it could of been that bike and rider they saw speeding. There is no proof that it was the same bike that was speeding.



https://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/speed.jpg


I have completed some high quality art to help explain. You go past the speed camera, which see's you from the front speeding, then you go past the junction, and past the cctv camera that picks up your reg.

The clever police get the cctv footage and trying to bring a fine against you, however, and this was my question/point. Its possible that you turned left, stoped or whatever, and another similar/identicle bike went past, which then has recived the fine. Hense why i think the whole thing wouldnt work unless you admit to it.
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd definitely recognise that rider in a line-up.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:49 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moral of the story is, never open your door for vampires, TV licensing, or coppers.
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staffo
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
I'd definitely recognise that rider in a line-up.


Racist.
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Radis
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

FOI submitted to Hampshire rozzers:

Quote:

This request is relating to the M3 roadworks. Please provide me with a count of the following:

- Number of people who have received speeding fines from the average speed cameras on the M3 split by northbound and southbound by month since their erection.
- Please provide the highest average speed for which prosecution was sought
- Please provide the lowest average speed for which prosecution was sought
- Please provide me with figures of successful prosecutions for speeding on this section of road, again split by month, northbound and southbound
- Please provide me with the number of accidents reported on this stretch of road split by month, northbound and southbound along with an indication of any bodily injury or fatalities.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the spirit. Thumbs Up
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 29 Jun 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

inb4 Gove manages to remove the right to FOI requests...
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