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The new russian state, Syriastan

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staffo
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: The new russian state, Syriastan Reply with quote

150k troops mobilised, spetsnaz on the ground, bombing everyone and the majority supporting Putin...

Has everyone forgot he is ex KGB?

I wonder how long it will be untill there is some "firendly" fire with either nato bombs on spetsnaz or russian on nato SF.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the alternative? Syria and Iraq barely exist as separate nation states anymore. Their border with each other is virtually non-existent. And what solutions has the West come up with? To supply a bunch of weak Islamist militias who's armoury is open to pilfering by IS anyway?

I am beginning to suspect that Putin's solution may be the best of a bad bunch. As much as we may dislike the current regime, perhaps a strong Syria under Assad may be the best that could be achieved in the circumstances as they exist at the moment?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're welcome to it. Don't think of it as an expansion of the Russian empire, but as their Vietnam. Or more appropriately, Afghanistan.

And look on the bright side. If it does turn into an unambiguously foreign invasion and occupation, the various tribes and Mahometan sub-cultists might stop displacing the hell out of each other and dig in to resist the infidel.

Anything that keeps them in the region is good with me.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
They're welcome to it. Don't think of it as an expansion of the Russian empire, but as their Vietnam. Or more appropriately, Afghanistan.



Or maybe their Iraq? Thinking Shocked
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I have no problem with it either, Syria was one of the better middle eastern countries before the yanks (and us by proxy) got involved.

Good luck to the Ruskies in returning it to some sort of normality.
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
They're welcome to it. Don't think of it as an expansion of the Russian empire, but as their Vietnam. Or more appropriately, Afghanistan.
I was wondering if anyone would draw that parallel Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree too. The west don't have a clue how to fight over there. Iraq is worse now than with Sadaam. Afghanistan is almost back to Taliban control and we kow tow to one of the worst counties in the world for brutality, Saudi Arabia.

Go Putin Go Dance! Clapping Dance!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking out loud, I wonder even if this would be a good opportunity to strengthen our ties with Russia, even actively support their policy in Syria? It's always easier to influence friends than it is enemies.

Why be involved at all, you may ask? Well, if Assad is in a firm position and eradicates opposition to his regime, there's still IS to think about. They're a distant problem that we can ignore, you say? Really? i don't think they're a problem that will go away quite so easily. But they would be easier to deal with if we could be truly unified with the Russian policy. IS requires weak/divided nation states to gain ground effectively.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
we kow tow to one of the worst counties in the world for brutality, Saudi Arabia.



Frankly, what the Saudis do in their own country as far as brutality to their own goes, doesn't bother me so much. Well, this may come back to bite them on the arse anyway in due course. Seems to be a pretty strong movement of radical opposition there among the religious leaders, and was the spiritual home of Al Qaeda - another potential failed state in the future perhaps.

A bigger concern in the present moment is the way the Saudi regime is stirring up the worldwide jihad movement. Wahhabism it seems is at the root of much of the current trouble with all of this, and Saudi is it's major exporter. Jeez, talk about a paradox!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
we kow tow to one of the worst counties in the world for brutality, Saudi Arabia.



Frankly, what the Saudis do in their own country as far as brutality to their own goes, doesn't bother me so much. Well, this may come back to bite them on the arse anyway in due course. Seems to be a pretty strong movement of radical opposition there among the religious leaders, and was the spiritual home of Al Qaeda - another potential failed state in the future perhaps.

A bigger concern in the present moment is the way the Saudi regime is stirring up the worldwide jihad movement. Wahhabism it seems is at the root of much of the current trouble with all of this, and Saudi is it's major exporter. Jeez, talk about a paradox!


Oh I totally agree. Personally I couldn't give a shit about how many of each other they kill.

My point was we are bleating about Assad yet turn a blind eye to Saudi because they are our allies and have the oil.
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von1papen
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the Chinese are sending military advisers, currently on board an aircraft carrier as well......

Get out the beer and popcorn and watch the show!

I imagine they have a reasonable chance of success as at the end of the day Assad does have reasonable support in Syria, the population knows well their choice is ISIS or Assad, some weak mishmash of ropey western supported 'legitimate opposition' will not bring peace, just look at Libya.

People will say it'll be another afghanistan for russia but bear in mind that Russia had a hard time in Afghanistan mostly because the West signifcantly funded and equipped the Taliban (with the likes of stinger anti-air launchers) which made helicopter operations difficult. It is also a much more backwards and Tribal 'state' compared to Syria.

Russia had the good grace not to do the same to us otherwise we would of had alot more dead squaddies in downed Chinooks (and they still managed to get afew with basic RPGs).
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


My point was we are bleating about Assad yet turn a blind eye to Saudi because they are our allies and have the oil.


But then we are back to the problem of how not to be reliant on Saudi oil. Answers on a postcard... Laughing

von1papen wrote:
And the Chinese are sending military advisers, currently on board an aircraft carrier as well......


Got a good source on that? Is it under the auspices of the UN or what? Confused
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


My point was we are bleating about Assad yet turn a blind eye to Saudi because they are our allies and have the oil.


But then we are back to the problem of how not to be reliant on Saudi oil. Answers on a postcard... Laughing


Invade and take it over before Russia and China carve up the Middle East between themselves anyway?
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staffo
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just take a look at recent spetsnaz or Russian operations. Beslan school, Moscow theatre, Chechnya even Ukraine.

Iraq and Afghan are both shitholes already because troops were forced to withdraw to early, because of pressure from the same people now complaining its fucked.

Figures i saw put 5 million siding with the "moderate Islam" rebels, who just want Assad gone, and not a Islamic Empire. What will happen to all of them if they lose?

Trusting someone whose day job was to lie, deceive and murder seems quite daft to me.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:17 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

staffy50 wrote:
Just take a look at recent spetsnaz or Russian operations. Beslan school, Moscow theatre, Chechnya even Ukraine.

Iraq and Afghan are both shitholes already because troops were forced to withdraw to early, because of pressure from the same people now complaining its fucked.

Figures i saw put 5 million siding with the "moderate Islam" rebels, who just want Assad gone, and not a Islamic Empire. What will happen to all of them if they lose?

Trusting someone whose day job was to lie, deceive and murder seems quite daft to me.


Leaving out the murder bit, you have just described every politician ever.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Invade and take it over before Russia and China carve up the Middle East between themselves anyway?


You want to invade another Middle Eastern country?! Shocked

staffy50 wrote:
Just take a look at recent spetsnaz or Russian operations. Beslan school, Moscow theatre, Chechnya even Ukraine.

Iraq and Afghan are both shitholes already because troops were forced to withdraw to early, because of pressure from the same people now complaining its fucked.

Figures i saw put 5 million siding with the "moderate Islam" rebels, who just want Assad gone, and not a Islamic Empire. What will happen to all of them if they lose?

Trusting someone whose day job was to lie, deceive and murder seems quite daft to me.


The problem you have is, as I said earlier, what's the alternative? It's easy to sit back and criticise everyone, or dream up pie-in-the-sky solutions that take no account of the situation on the ground. But things are a bit more serious than that, and need real-world, realistic solutions. Maybe what we do now can be modified at a later date when things have settled down a bit, but this is all getting rather urgent.

I think we could do worse than ally ourselves with Putin on this. I don't think resisting his policy there is going to do anyone much good. Putin may be a bit of a hangover from the Cold War, but I don't think he needs to be considered as a repeat of the Soviet system, if he isn't pushed in that direction by others.

Besides, on the subject of withdrawing too early, once we invaded Iraq and took down Saddam, I'm not sure any time would have been the right time to leave. The Iraqi army that we left in place, and police force, which numbered nigh on a million strong in total, fled before what, 6000 IS fighters? The solution there would have been to replace Saddam with...... Thinking errrr....another Saddam Confused
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
this is all getting rather urgent.

I can suggest a solution that deals with the problem instantly and at no cost:

Switch off your television set, go out and do something less boring instead.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 06 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
this is all getting rather urgent.

I can suggest a solution that deals with the problem instantly and at no cost:

Switch off your television set, go out and do something less boring instead.


You still here? Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:29 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Switch off your television set, go out and do something less boring instead.

You still here? Laughing

Like herpes.

Serious as cancer, we could stop trying to police the world - the primary effect of which is to screw it up even more while incurring the wrath of the ungrateful revolting natives that we're trying to help - and concentrate on policing the UK instead.
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R_Josh
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally something we can have a back seat on !?
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grr666
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
The west don't have a clue how to fight over there.

They do.https://secretofthevine.com/images/mushroom-cloud.gif

See? Our IEDs are way better. Thumbs Up That's because we have scientists making our guns 'n bullets.
Not inbred, uneducated goat shaggers.

And before Vincent and his ilk start with the 'what about the women and children' party line...
I feel considerably differently about that element, the women are a bigger threat than the men because
breeders. So blasting them directly to Allah, not passing GO TO EUROPE and therefore not collecting
a benefit cheque for 17 Junior Muhhumids also makes them a legitimate target too as far as I'm
concerned, there's more than one way to destroy a country and the Muslims are playing the 5 card trick, They:-.

1. Over breed with a religious agenda and zeal..
2. Always take more than give except to their own.
3. 1000's of Suicidal martyrs and fighters among them.
4. They are purveyors of that fineGovernment approved racism. (death to the west etc)
5. They make no demonstrable effort to integrate, just assimilate and colonise.

Still, getting very very hot very very quickly is probably preferable and considerably less painful then
being married to a Muslim. With a very high chance of the same final outcome if she steps out of line.
So we'd probably be doing them a favour, at least it would be quick. Better than years of misogyny and abuse.
As for the kids? Collateral damage at worst, they are being raised to hate us any way (oh yes and especially
the Jews) , so if allowed to live they become problems stored for the future.

Trouble is, the oil and infrastructure pumping it out of that shithole (which is the only thing stopping the West
I reckon) would be a worthless prize as it would to all intents and purposes, become unobtanium due
to radioactive contamination. However, if we get the hang of efficient and affordable hydrogen propulsion
they and their oil become as outdated as their religion and it'll be
BOOM before bedtime.
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Last edited by grr666 on 09:55 - 07 Oct 2015; edited 1 time in total
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UnknownStuntm...
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Switch off your television set, go out and do something less boring instead.

https://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5827/778/1600/Why%20don't%20you.jpg
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder how many AIM 120s have now been delivered to Turkey?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 07 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I wonder how many AIM 120s have now been delivered to Turkey?


The way Turkey is behaving, before they know it, IS will have a major presence there too. One step closer to central Europe. Where then? Chechnya? You can see where this is going if everyone just sits back and says "not our problem."
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