RPHA ST - Fog on inside of pinlock?

[NJD]

I may sound stupid here but I thought that the job of a pinlock was to prevent fogging, fog on a pinlock, ey?

So I purchased a HJC RPHA ST recently (4 days just encase is an issue and need to return helmet / use warrenty) and I used it in the rain for the first time tonight, I cracked it open a few times for a few moments as the vents where closed and well I wanted some air etc.. I suppose the reason why I cracked the visor open is not important but the fact that it seems to have been for long enough for water to have gotten on the inside of the pinlock, naturally.

When I closed the visor fog started to form, not sure if instant or after a set amount of time as the rain was on outside of visor and it was dark so wasn't focusing on to much other than the road ahead.. first time using it in the rain and I figured it was on the outside of the visor or the rain was so heavy that wiping the visor with my glove wasn't enough, got a few roads away form home and cracked open the visor when stopped and everything was crystal clear so I knew it wasn't my glasses and figured outside visor.

When I got home and took the helmet off there was bad fogging on the inside of the pinlock, like on the actual pinlock to the point that it took a while to demist when opened inside the house, like surely it should go near enough straight away at room temp or in a room with heating on?

I can't say I encountered this issue with my K3 SV and I rode through plenty of bad weather with that.

Is there an issue with the pinlock or am I just missing the point that any water on the pinlock would fog up when the vents are closed and the helmet has a pretty tight chin curtain meaning little to no air gets in or out the helmet?

[recman]

My money is on it being poorly fitted/adjusted, thus not achieving a decent seal.
Check to see if there's a slight gap between the insert and the visor at the bottom.
Have a gander at the pointers on the cams and see if they are in the right position.

[MCN]

Or wurser, a tiny bit nicked out the silicone bead.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[NJD]

May have found the answer.

Googled pictures on the pinlock design and mine looked different around the area that it fits the pins in the helmet, at first I thought that some of the pinlock had fallen out or had been damaged so attempted to touch what would have been just the visor to test this theory and it turns out that there's a small amount of water trapped under the pinlock also explains why when I just closed the visor and all vents and breathed heavy there was a small amount of fog on either side where the water is trapped.

Could be a poorly adjusted pinlock or the seal could be faulty, shall return to J&S tomorrow and let them deal with it as its under warrenty.

[MCN]

[talkToTheHat]

I don't know about max pinlocks, but the older style of pinlocks that don't fit a recess would get full of water if I rode with visor open in the rain, or fly right out if visor snapped open at speed. My glasses used to steam when stopped which was a major PITA until I got a foggy mask. Check pinlock is installed tightly. I don't know whether your lid comes with a pinlock sealed in a packet for user to fit or a factory fitted one.

The guy at J&S offered to fit the pinlock on my shark. I stopped him when it was obvious he was struggling and put it in myself. There't a knack. Much refitting of the pinlock in my old HJC taught me this knack.

Read instructions that came with pinlock, check for damage, refit if you can. If it has a manufacturing defect or was damaged on installation, chase J&S. Warranty or not, J&S are oblighed to sort it within 30 days.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[NJD]

I guess the reason I never encountered this issue on the K3 SV was because the chin vent is not as secure and has a gap between it and the cheek pads meaning that there's an air flow with or without vents open, of which I used to ride wit the chin vent open on that all the time regardless of weather anyway. I took the pinlock out of the K3 SV last night as it was slipping when the visor was closed and put it back in and gave it a push around the edges and it wasn't slipping, I guess on that one it was just a build up of water inbetween it and the visor that had loosened it over time, anyway back to the RPHA ST.

Popped into J&S on the way past and within a minute of walking in and explaining I had fog on the pinlock they took it off me had the doughnut out and cleaned it all up and placed it back in and checked it all over before giving me it back at witch point the rain started to absolutely tip it down so I ended up staying inside and chatting to them for a few minutes before risking a gap in the weather, good test of how fixed the issue was.

Hmm, it happened again and it seems i'm not alone, seems I was being a dummy and it's not fog caused by breathing but condensation because all the vents are closed and the helmet has a very tight chin curtain with a sealed visor. I realized this mid ride and just ended up popping the visor open slightly a few times and dropping the chin vent open, suppose I could remove the chin curtain and allow air in but I don't exactly want to get wet or cold. Now i'm aware it's not a fault of the visor i'll just deal with it as I go along.

Thanks to the staff at J&S for having more sense than I did and telling me its not worth risking going out in the rain otherwise I probably would have just walked out.

[talkToTheHat]

[NJD]

[talkToTheHat]

30 days, does not meet expectations, or is defective, legally required to refund

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content ignore the stuff about digital products, it mandates 30 days for other goods


Claim unsatisfactory quality as fog free mechanism obviously defective, not fit for purpose as visibility impaired in typical british weather and not as described as not fog free. Any one of those violations is refund territory. If bought before 1st of october you have a reasonable time for the same rights.

Is this the lid Lorenzo has been having trouble with?

It could be a defective pinlock, defective fitting of such, or an abused display model, or just utterly shit design. Either way make a fuss.

I have had an is-16, fg-15 and girlfriend has the vastly improved is-17 and the pinlocks have all been fine with the visor closed.

I currently wear a shark speed-r which has a max pinlock and a "race" visor that locks shut and doesn't ratchet. It stays closed when riding. I have a foggy mask for extreme conditions as my glasses steam at a standstill in particularly condensing conditions. I would look into a shark speed or vision depending on visor preferences, similar price similar features.

But dont take bullshit about condensation not fog, if j&s are being awkward demand refund.

It's uncomfortable making a fuss in what could be your only local supplier. My nearest seem ok on defective product issues. I spend a lot in there partly becasue they are willing to help me. Failed seam on waterproof trousers, failed zip on some leathers both sorted easily. Minor fault with my shark helmet was more difficult and they made vague attempt at fobbing me off, but it it being sorted, loaner lid from shark needed pinlock pin adjustment which they did and it is adequate.

Be polite. Don't get angry. Don't make a huge scene. Have photos on your phone of the problem if it can't be demonstrated in store.
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Bandit. does. everything.

[NJD]

Was purchased on the 1st of october.

I went in yesterday and they made adjustments to the pinlock, taking out, cleaning it and refitting it then gave it me back and said its good to go so that's two occasions that they've adjusted the pinlock and said it's suitable for road use and have had the same issue with visibility issues caused by fog / condensation on the inside of the pinlock in the rain witch is the last thing you want to happen.

Shall pop in tomorrow and ask for a refund with the intention to purchase another helmet and see what there response is as I want another helmet rather than money back and revert to my K3 SV again.

[talkToTheHat]

You have a right to a refund. Exercise that then buy different helmet. Possibly from the same place. Possibly not. Why? Because that makes the next helmet a new sale and not a replament. If they say "but our policy" then remind them that policy never overrules law
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Bandit. does. everything.

[iooi]

[recman]

In my experience with J&S, a properly worded email to someone in authority does the trick if you don't get any joy with the small man syndromed manager.

[NJD]

1 hour and 3 minutes after entering the store I walked out with no refund and no helmet.. not in my hand anyway, bcuz on order init.

One individual thought the issue controversial by deciding to give me some advice such as "try riding without a pinlock and you'll see the difference" and "should open the chin vent while riding".. yeah I'd rather not in the monsoon style rain showers we've had as of late. Seriously felt like I was the naughty pupil and had just swore in a classroom, drill Sargent argumentative response.. "aint nobody got time for that" in my head over and over again meanwhile keeping a blank face.

Put my foot down gently and basically informed them that for just under two hundred ponds it's not acceptable that I couldn't even make out the lane markings in the rain due to lack of vision caused by fog / condensation on the inside of the pinlock at witch point they informed me that I could be facing anything up to a three week wait while it was sent of to main office and tested for faults and the result was either a replacement or given back to me, erm no thanx.

The guy who advised the helmet in the first place was helpful, phoned head office and asked them directly to get a quick response just as I was walking out the door expecting it to be sent off, turns out head office gave the nod for me to get something to the same price as or more than the RPHA ST, so of I went and walked around for some time, could feel the awkward vibes like "is he gon go yet or nah?".

Anyway, despite them saying "must be same price or more" I had no intention of getting something more than one hundred and ninty nine ponds as pay day hadn't arrived and I didn't want to add anything on top because this issue isn't one caused by me etc. Tried on the HJC IS-17 and didn't suit my head shape and felt cheap compare to the ST, also HJC so didn't really want to go with that brand again.. sour taste in the mouth and all. Eventually went with the Shark Skwal and placed an order for desired style and size and await for it to be delivered.

Model I tried on was just plain white with a visor that didn't close fully and a sun visor that didn't retract properly, and they'd be willing to sell that to me no doubt, deary me, how do not notice these issues.

Anyway, I just hope the skawl's worth it.

[iooi]

Some of what they said are valid points.
Pinlocks work by absorbing moisture. So when you have chin guards & all the vents shut, you can guess what will happen.
Your breath is full of moisture, add that into no air circulating around the inside of the helmet and no matter how many layers to a visor it will steam up.
You need fresh circulating air to remove the moisture.

Sit in a car when you are wet and what happens to the windows?
Yep you guessed it they steam up. Open a window and get air moving around and they clear off.

Double glazing is supposed to stop misting up on the inside.
Cup your hands round your mouth and breath on one.... What happens.... Oh fuck it steams up

Pinlocks are not the be all to end all in stopping misting up. But they the best you can get when you compare to a standard visor.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[NJD]

[MCN]

[CaNsA]

https://giant.gfycat.com/HospitableInfantileHound.gif

[NJD]

[MCN]

[quote="NJD"]

[Old Git Racing]

E-mail Lorenzo, he's had a bit of bother with his HJC lid misting up of late, maybe he can help?

OGR
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2022 Tiger Sport 660 2019 Street Twin 2003 K3 gixxer 1000 1998 Srad 600 track hack

[NJD]

[talkToTheHat]