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Saudi Arabia sueing social media critic WTF!

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:31 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Saudi Arabia sueing social media critic WTF! Reply with quote
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/622150/Saudi-Arabia-sue-Twitter-Ashraf-Fayadh-Islamic-State-ISIS

Surely we should be bombing these twats?
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notbike
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PostPosted: 08:50 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not surprising for a nation run by radical Muslims that take pride in treating their women like shit and enforcing sharia law (a backward legal system based on backward scriptures). It's a shame sharia has wormed its way into the west under the guise of multiculturalism too... anyway what I'm saying is yeah we should bomb the fuckers.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
When you say "radical muslims", it's important to frame the boundaries.

45% of British muslims say that those preaching violence against the west are not out of touch with mainstream muslim opinion.

24% say that violence against those who publish images of Mahomet can be justified.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/london-draw-mohamed-exhibition-cancelled-due-to-real-possibility-people-could-be-killed-10464019.html
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Yorkshire Geek
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meef wrote:
... anyway what I'm saying is yeah we should bomb the fuckers.
Most of our intelligence on the middle East including potential attacks on the UK comes from Saudi Arabia. Fundamentally, that's why we don't. That and bombing countries that weren't threatening us is why we're in this fucking mess in the first place.

In this case, barbaric as it may be, the law states the penalty for apostasy is death. It's not a kangaroo court throwing out random decisions, due process has been followed. ISIS don't bother which such niceties, so the comparison made isn't valid and therefore there is at least a tenuous case to be made for libel.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yorkshire Geek wrote:
Meef wrote:
... anyway what I'm saying is yeah we should bomb the fuckers.
Most of our intelligence on the middle East including potential attacks on the UK comes from Saudi Arabia. Fundamentally, that's why we don't. That and bombing countries that weren't threatening us is why we're in this fucking mess in the first place.

In this case, barbaric as it may be, the law states the penalty for apostasy is death. It's not a kangaroo court throwing out random decisions, due process has been followed. ISIS don't bother which such niceties, so the comparison made isn't valid and therefore there is at least a tenuous case to be made for libel.


If you are backhandedly refering to Britain's involvement in Iraq you must be careful
Britain went into Iraq as a part of a coalition force on behalf of The UN. The UN was involved because saddam Hussain attacked neighbours.

Courts in saudi do not provide acceptable legal representation. So Kangaroo Courts is exactly what they operate under sharia law.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Meef wrote:
Not surprising for a nation run by radical Muslims that take pride in treating their women like shit and enforcing sharia law (a backward legal system based on backward scriptures). It's a shame sharia has wormed its way into the west under the guise of multiculturalism too... anyway what I'm saying is yeah we should bomb the fuckers.


I think we need to be clearer regarding these "Muslims" it needs to be pointed out they're Sunni Whahabbists.
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Yorkshire Geek
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
If you are backhandedly refering to Britain's involvement in Iraq you must be careful
Britain went into Iraq as a part of a coalition force on behalf of The UN. The UN was involved because saddam Hussain attacked neighbours.

Nothng backhanded about it, i'm outright stating it. The UN was involved because the US lied to them on several counts, we were involved because Blair lied to us. Hussain was an asshole, but there is no chance whatsoever that parliament would have sanctioned Desert Storm had they been given the truth.

ISIS are as militarily competent as they are because they have a load of the Iraqi "Elite Republican Guard" that were all fired rather than trying to get them engaged in being on the right side. While not up to the standard of a western army, they're competent enough to have kicked the arse of a fair few militias and take a massive chunk of territory from sovereign governments. They didn't give two shits about us before the Gulf war, Al-Queda had absolutely no presence in Iraq and ISIS didn't exist, now look at the mess we made.

Interventionism is not noticeably doing us any favours in this region.

Quote:
Courts in saudi do not provide acceptable legal representation. So Kangaroo Courts is exactly what they operate under sharia law.

Just read the facts of this case and I have to concede it's horseshit.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think he's mixing 1990/91 with 2003. The one where the western liberal media told us Iraqi troops took babies out of incubators, and left them to die on the floor, later found to be a Hill & Knowlton PR exercise, not the one where they told us about WMDs ready in 45 minutes that could result in a mushroom cloud, yellow cake Uranium from Niger, or mobile chemical weapon labs.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
He added that Saudi Arabia would not hesitate to take legal action against "any media that slandered the religious judiciary of the Kingdom", according to a report in the Al-Riyadh newspaper.

Thinking

Saudi Arabia sentencing a man to death for apostasy is just as bad as what ISIS do.

The Saudi Government and the Saudi Royal family are to blame for this.

fite me and sue me
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
fite me and sue me


gif war when? Wink
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Knocking out Saddam was not a bad move.
The expectation that sanity would ensue after he was toppled was the naivety of the west. Though only some of the West. There were enough people with enough know-how/common sense to say, 'a big stick is needed to control Iraq when the other Big Stick is removed'. But that advice fell on deaf ears. The calls to pull out the armed forces only encouraged the Arse Holes, Al Queda and IS. They only needed to bide their time.
They are a law-less lot from a culture that rejects authority.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 26 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThoughtControl wrote:
Ste wrote:
fite me and sue me


gif war when? Wink


Nah, he'll just hid out at my house when they try and leave the summons at his.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
When you say "radical muslims", it's important to frame the boundaries.

45% of British muslims say that those preaching violence against the west are not out of touch with mainstream muslim opinion.

24% say that violence against those who publish images of Mahomet can be justified.
Its equally important to break down how statistics are gathered - In this case polling 1,000 Muslims out of a UK population of at the very least 2,706,066 (last census).

Using statistics against a group of people when they're gathered from 0.05% of the total group is pretty pointless in trying to determine anything thats actually statistically useful or reliable Laughing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:
Using statistics against a group of people when they're gathered from 0.05% of the total group is pretty pointless in trying to determine anything thats actually statistically useful or reliable Laughing.

Excuse me. I meant to say that using standard polling methodology and that population and sample size, we can be 95% confident that:

42-48% of British muslims would say that those preaching violence against the west are not out of touch with mainstream muslim opinion.

21-27% would say that violence against those who publish images of Mahomet can be justified.
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Yorkshire Geek
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
-Matt- wrote:
Using statistics against a group of people when they're gathered from 0.05% of the total group is pretty pointless in trying to determine anything thats actually statistically useful or reliable Laughing.

True

Not true, see Rogerborg's post. Statistically this poll is accurate to within +/-3% assuming they avoided selection bias. You'd be amazed how small a sample you actually need so long as you select them properly and don't (for example) pick 1000 non-English speaking Finsbury Park mosque worshippers.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Using statistics gathered from 0.05% of the total group being represented?

Thinking

On that basic, 16 people can speak for BCFs 31,564 active users.

Or, 1 person with 15 socks.

Mr. Green
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Using statistics gathered from 0.05% of the total group being represented?

Thinking

On that basic, 16 people can speak for BCFs 31,564 active users.

As it turns out, for 31564 you still need 1000 to get the levels of confidence mentioned above.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2011/11/21/understanding-margin-error/

It may all be bullshit, but it's the commonly accepted bullshit, and for predictive polls like pre-election voting does tend to produce accurate numbers if you get something like random selection from your population.

I would be suspicious about how and where they found the respondents in this case. If it's from outside mosques in at 2pm on Tuesday then it might be as representative as judging BCF based on a live chat session.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I meant to say that using standard polling methodology and that population and sample size, we can be 95% confident that
Ah yes; the 'randomised' and 'mathmatically accurate' group polling system. Unfortuately it often doesn't work out remotely accurate - it entirely depends on which 'population' group; especially certain demographics within that group are being interviewed, no matter how 'randomised' it claims to be. Not asking 99.95% of a group of people their opinion is leaving some serious margin for error - especially when the 'randomised sample' is often not that randomised or balanced.

Quote:
ComRes interviewed 1,000 Muslims living in Britain aged 18+ by telephone between 26th January and 20th February. Data were weighted to be representative of the known population. Sample was drawn from two sources, as outlined below:

National Random Digit Dialing (RDD) Surveys: A database collected from national, RDD surveys where respondents identified as being Muslim who were happy to be re-contacted for research.

Super Output Areas: RDD sample was drawn based on the Office for National Statistics’ Output Areas – the statistical regions created by the Office for National Statistics that are the lowest geographical level at which census estimates are provided – in order to determine the Middle Layer Super Output Areas that have the highest density and incidence of BME adults (18+).


So what we can safely say is; a microscopic statistical sample of Muslims, who can be bothered to take part in phone surveys, from selective areas after factoring in some alterations to the 'randomised' process, focusing or not focusing on high density BME population areas - expressed those views. Perhaps ringing around asking for Muslims who are happy to participate in phone surveys is a good way of rooting out potential future-extremists then, going by the statistics? Shocked

That is in no way an accurate or broad representation of all Muslims as a whole. I suspect the majority of people for starters would hang up the minute they recieve a 'please do our survey' call; the ones that don't certainly don't represent the majority on that basis alone, nevermind the pre-selective methods used to find participants for the polling. There is a ton of seemingly 'insignificant' factors that accumulate and end up making most of these types of surveys anything but 'random' or 'representative'.

Something as simple as polling by phone versus sitting someone in a quiet room with a questionaire may give largely differing results over a large group, purely on the basis people may be more inclined to answer quickly during a telephone interview, were on paper they generally take time to re-read, formulate and consider their answers.

Yorkshire Geek wrote:
so long as you select them properly and don't (for example) pick 1000 non-English speaking
Well, this poll has already ruled out non-english speaking participants being phone-based, theres one fairly significant bias and misrepresentation of 'the UK muslim population' from this survey already.

Was it using land-line numbers only too? Many younger people, or people in low income areas don't even have land-lines anymore and will just use mobile phones - potentially missing out a huge two other huge demographics in the survey.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
-Matt- wrote:
[I disagree with the conclusion therefore all opinion polls are bullshit forever]

OK, I've updated your personnel records to show that you'll never, ever use a poll result to make or support a point that you happen to agree with. Thumbs Up
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
-Matt- wrote:
[I disagree with the conclusion therefore all opinion polls are bullshit forever]
I'm not even that interested in the specific poll result, its the way these sort of polls are rolled out as being 'accurate and balanced' with little information about how the data's actually gathered which I was griping about.

You could of quoted a poll asking 0.05% of the UK population if they wash their own car that got its data using the same sort of methods; i'd have the exact same issues with it being used as reliable evidence Laughing.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
OK, let's not extrapolate then.

240 British muslims said that violence against those who publish images of Mahomet can be justified.

That's 240 too many.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 27 Nov 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
OK, let's not extrapolate then.

240 British muslims said that violence against those who publish images of Mahomet can be justified.

That's 240 too many.


I bet there's a similar number of christians who feel the same way about Jesus.
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