Getting oil *into* Mash 400

[blue_painted]

My Mash has just reach second oil+filter change and this one I thought I'd do myself. Oil out was no problem, nicely hot, drain pain in position, 17mm spanner and (for once!) didn't drop the plug bolt into the hot oil.

I changed the HF112 oil filter with no problems (apart from dibbling oil down the engine casing). And then I tried to get 2.1litres of Motul 10/40 into the beast. At about 500ml oil flooded out of the filler. After some sitting about pondering, the level sank and I got another 100ml in. Then another 50ml. The I tried turning over on the starter, with kill switch off, and got a bit more in ... then I tried starting the bike and letting it tick over for 30 (nervous) seconds ... and called the good guys at the bike-shop who said that's what they'd do but ... I even tried a gentle test-ride for a couple of miles ... but nothing sounded or felt different.

I didn't get two litres in, not even 1.3l, and the oil tank is completely full. So what else could I have got wrong or cocked up? Looking at my waste oil container it looks as though about 2 litres came out although it's difficult to be sure.

What's my next move?
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GP-100 -> CB250RS -> CBX550F2 (pause) KR1S -> RD350YPVS -> ZX6-R (pause) CD200 ->Mash 400 -> T100 (current) & (R1100RT scrapped pile o' shite) (CB250 Nighthawk - SORN in shed) Meteor 350 (current)

[Robby]

Oil tank you say - so does it hold the oil in a separate tank, or in the sump?

How does the oil level look on the dipstick/sight glass?

[blue_painted]

Yes, oil tank. It's a scavenged sump, the old XBR 500 engine at 400cc.

The tank is full, so above the max on the dipstick. I'm thinking up a scheme for draining some out - when/if I'm comfortable that there is enough oil in there.
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GP-100 -> CB250RS -> CBX550F2 (pause) KR1S -> RD350YPVS -> ZX6-R (pause) CD200 ->Mash 400 -> T100 (current) & (R1100RT scrapped pile o' shite) (CB250 Nighthawk - SORN in shed) Meteor 350 (current)

[MCN]

Without looking at any spec./off the top of my head:
If the engine is 'Oiling' then you have drained the oil from the sump. On separate oil systems there should only be a small amount a few CCs of oil in the sump.
When the engine is running the oil is pumped back by the scavenge pump. The scavenge pump is bigger than the oil pump so that the sump is never full.
The oil is held in the tank by a check valve or non-return valve of some sort. If this valve isn't seating properly then oil can seep back into the sump.
Perhaps the system was over filled.
This is possible if the engine oil is topped up when the engine has sat for some time and the oil had trickled down into the sump which would produce a 'low' level in the tank.

The tank is where the oil is added on service/top up. It should be filled to the level.
They normally don't hold a lot of oil when compared to a more modern bike as most bike have gearbox and engine using common oil so in effect you fill two sumps.
Separate oil tank systems have one lot of oil for the gearbox and another lot of oil for the engine.


I am the first to admit it but I may be talking shite.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Good god, why the fuck are people selling 40s tech bikes new?


Edit: Just remembered about Harleys....
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Polarbear]

Excuse me, I might be talking shite but if it's a dry sump, did you drain the oil out of the oil tank or sump. Could there still be oil in one or the other that you didn't drain?

I THINK that's what MCN is alluding too as well.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Ariel Badger]

Why not measure how much came out?
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[Robby]

Well the usual method on a bike with a separate oil tank would be:

Drain the oil, remove the filter.

Replace the filter, fill up the oil.

Start and run for a minute. Turn off.

Top up the oil. Some of it will now be in the engine and in the filter.

Job done.

If the oil capacity is meant to be 2L and you only managed to get 1L in, then you didn't get 2L out. Did you follow the workshop manual process for changing the oil? Quite possible that there is more than one oil drain point (sump and oil tank) or that you drained the gearbox if it uses separate engine and gearbox oil.

[jimspeed]

You haven't drained the gearbox instead ?
Otherwise wouldn't you need to drain the oil tank not the sump ?
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Hyosung cruise 125(passed test on, sold) Kawasaki el 252 (better than expected but sold on) Kawasaki GPZ500S first "big"bike.(sold) ZZR600 E5..Z750 2007,ER5, currently on a 2008 Enfield bullet electra x and loving it..
,"Alpha-9: Is there any correlation between dyno rod and dyno kits?"

[Ariel Badger]

[jimspeed]

It used to be a common problem with saabs some of those had a gearbox underneath the engine and 2 separate drain plugs.
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Hyosung cruise 125(passed test on, sold) Kawasaki el 252 (better than expected but sold on) Kawasaki GPZ500S first "big"bike.(sold) ZZR600 E5..Z750 2007,ER5, currently on a 2008 Enfield bullet electra x and loving it..
,"Alpha-9: Is there any correlation between dyno rod and dyno kits?"

[blue_painted]

Thanks all.

I don't think I have accidentally drained the gear box because a) the drain plug is the one in the manual for draining engine oil and b) the drained oil smelled and felt like engine oil -- just like the oil from the filter -- and c) I did get over a litre into the engine oil tank.

So this is what I'm going to do: I'm going to lower the level in the tank to max, check the oil filter because if that's filled then the stuff is circulating and then ride for a bit and re-measure.

Next time I'll measure the oil coming out.
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GP-100 -> CB250RS -> CBX550F2 (pause) KR1S -> RD350YPVS -> ZX6-R (pause) CD200 ->Mash 400 -> T100 (current) & (R1100RT scrapped pile o' shite) (CB250 Nighthawk - SORN in shed) Meteor 350 (current)