Vtr just stopped running

scooke · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 03 Mar 2010 Karma :

Hi guys right my problem is this, my mates been going on about riding along and hitting the kill switch and turning it on to create a backfire which I never heard of but tried it first time nothing second time heard it backfire straight after I heard a rattling noise then felt like it was running on one cylinder then conked out. After that put it in neutal tried to fire it up i heard the starter relay or solenoid clicking but lights dim but that's it. What have a STUPIDLY possibly done?

I know I'm guna get some grief for this so crack on.
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hay guys i think this is right lol...

andys675 · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Karma :

completely fucked it is my bet, do I win £5?

timing, valves, locked up
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scooke · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 03 Mar 2010 Karma :

I dunno if you win £5 yet but when its apart I shall take pictures for you lot lol
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hay guys i think this is right lol...

Old Git Racing · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Aug 2009 Karma :

Front cylinder cam chain tensioner? Look at a thread I'm on with in show and tell, winter projects. Bet its this.

OGR
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scooke · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 03 Mar 2010 Karma :

That's a big problem if it is as its my main commuter. How much would you say it could cost to fix?
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hay guys i think this is right lol...

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

How much is a new engine?
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P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

That might break it. First I've heard though...

mysterious_rider · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Karma :

Shouldnt kill a bike. Id check the switch. Sounds faulty.

Check for a spark.

Does it turn over on the button?
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mysterious_rider · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Karma :

Shouldnt kill a bike. Id check the switch. Sounds faulty.

Check for a spark.

Does it turn over on the button?
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scooke · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 03 Mar 2010 Karma :

No it clicks lights dim and so does display unit then nothing
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hay guys i think this is right lol...

Howling TerrorOutOfOffice · Super Spammer Joined: 05 Dec 2008 Karma :

Worth checking the battery voltage...just in case.
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hmmmnz · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

Be pretty bad luck if it has slipped a couple of teeth on the cam sprocket,
Never heard of it happening before, but the cam chain tensioner is a bit of a weak point on the vtr,
Pop the rocker covers off and check the timing marks,

Fingers crossed that the piston isn't jammed against the valves.
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P.addy · Red Rocket Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Karma :

If it just clicks that's usually battery related. Chuck it on charge.

redeem ouzzer · World Chat Champion Joined: 06 Oct 2015 Karma :

On my mate's VTR the front camchain actually came off. I bet the clicking is the engine trying to turn against a bent valve.

Also lol at doing stunts on a bike you need for work.
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spikenipple · Crazy Courier Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Karma :

Yeah sounds like it could be that the cam chain tensioner has failed.
Remove the large hex-socket plug in the centre of the clutch casing and *very* carefully turn the engine over anti-clockwise with a bar. If it stops dead, then the cam chain has skipped a few teeth and the piston is hitting the valves.
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chris-red · Have you considered a TDM? Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Karma :

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Robby · Dirty Old Man Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :

A backfire shouldn't cause the camchain to jump. It's unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust. This puts pressure on the back of the valve, which is pressure in the wrong direction as far as a valve in concerned. They're strong in compression but less so in tension. It doesn't cause enough pressure to seriously interrupt the piston and jar the engine to the point where the camchain will jump.

So it is possible to damage/break a valve, but you would have to be unlucky for your first backfire to break your engine.

To diagnose, I would do the following:
1. Get the battery on charge, just in case this is all incidental.
2. While the battery is on charge, take out the spark plugs and crank timing bolt cap (usually a screw cap in the middle of a crankcase cover) and rotate the engine through a few revolutions. If the engine moves smoothly, it's fine. If you encounter a lot of resistance, there is something between the piston and head. This would need proper investigation.
3. If you don't find any resistance, put the cap back on, plugs back in, and try starting it once the charger has finished.

If you have killed a valve then I would price up replacement engines. Changing a valve is not a particularly expensive job - probably about £100 in parts and tools. The issue is the other damage you can cause, which may include a knackered head and piston.

Nobby the Bastard · Harley Gaydar Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Karma :

My FZR bent and twisted a con rod when it dropped a valve.
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temeluchus · World Chat Champion Joined: 01 Oct 2008 Karma :

It's a Honda so also possible the reg rec and stator has melted.
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andys675 · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Karma :

mine cost £600 and 2 days sweat when it died due to front camchain tehsioner failure

engine from breakers fitted by myself in the shed, as the only thing the damaged engine could have done is run as a single, there was that much damage
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jjdugen · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Karma :

My money is on a CCT failing, VTR's do this for fun.
Its 'usually' just two valves that get bent, David Silvers has them for about £30 each.
Its usually the front cylinder that gets it, very easy to take the head off.
I would fit the manual tensioners in any case, about the £30 mark for each.
Check that the valve guides have not shattered too, all the ones I have seen have been fine. A bit of faffing about, but not an insurmountable job. (There were lots of cheap VTR's at one time, not so many these days!)
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