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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

I came to a point where I need your help again. As always, I have to do a short summary of my diploma thesis in a foreign language. I picked the language of yours, as I already know a thing or two about it.

Q: Does the following make sense?
Q: Are there any grammar mistakes?

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange, within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, that is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also at the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order.

Thank you, Thumbs Up
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defblade
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:


This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange, within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused on the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused on the types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills. They also (cover or consider, your choice) the process of enforcement of the rights (arising?) from the bills and the (possible?)objections against the bill payment order.



I'd change the "at"s to "on"s, and break up the long 3rd sentence. A couple of suggested extra words added which, to me, would make it read better.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 09:49 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange within the Czech law system. The initial chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The chapters that follow then focus on types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills. The process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order is also covered.

You're overusing commas.

I'd probably use "initial" rather than "first" and "chapters that follow" rather than "following chapters" (which would typically mean immediately following this text, not the chapters after the first).

Something like the above. At least some of my comments appear to agree with defblade.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange within the Czech law system. The initial chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The chapters that follow then focus on types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills. The process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order is also covered.

You're overusing commas.

I'd probably use "initial" rather than "first" and "chapters that follow" rather than "following chapters" (which would typically mean immediately following this text, not the chapters after the first).

Something like the above. At least some of my comments appear to agree with defblade.



Indeed. You're overusing commas and using them inappropriately.

Use a comma to indicate a pause allowing the reader, if they're reading out loud, to catch their breath.

Use commas around optional parts. e.g. the section in bold above could be missed out, but the whole thing still makes sense.

Read out loud what you've written, pausing where you have put commas and full stops. You should be able to detect that it's not sounding right. Treat a comma pause as half the length of a full stop pause. So, for example:

This is my dog. [pause 2 seconds] My dog is brown.

If you pause for 2 seconds on a full stop, pause for 1 when using a comma. You, obviously, don't have to time it precisely, just use it as a guide.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange, within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, that is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also at the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order.


I'm far from perfect at my own language, but I'd write:

Quote:
This diploma thesis analyses the Bill of Exchange within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, it is mainly focused on the development of the Bill of Exchange in our territory, and it's unification. The following chapters are focused on the types of Bills of Exchange, selected operations, and particular kinds of bills.


I've added capitalisation to Bill of Exchange as I believe it to be a title?

I can't make sense of the last bit "and also at the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order."

Also it's difficult to read and then re-write, as my interpretation of your writing may be different to what you intended it to mean.

I have to say, I often forget you aren't a native English speaker when using these forums. I'm not sure what level English they'll be expecting, but I'd be surprised if you're not at the required level.

Out of interest, Kawashima often points out that his speech is at nowhere near the level of his writing, do you struggle with the same?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 13:06 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:

You're overusing commas.

I'd probably use "initial" rather than "first" and "chapters that follow" rather than "following chapters".


I would use 'opening chapter'.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the use of commas to break up long sentences:

I don't think they're just for 'catching your breath'. There are other intricacies to them.

Consider this sentence:
- Today was a Monday, and thanks to my idiot mother, I died.

It's a structure I often see and it's wrong.

Commas such as those in the sentence above are used to break up clauses of information, such that you could remove the part between the commas and the sentence would still work

So it should look like this:
- Today was a Monday and, thanks to my idiot mother, I died.

And, as you can see, the central clause can be pulled out and the main information being conveyed is still there.
- Today was a Monday and [thanks to my idiot mother] I died.
- Today was a Monday and I died.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

So it should look like this:
- Today was a Monday and, thanks to my idiot mother, I died.

Lie down on the couch and tell me why you chose that specific phrase as your example.
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brains_t
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The following chapters are [then] focused on…..


Nothing early in the paragraph has changed the "following chapters" therefore the "then" is unnecessary.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
Regarding the use of commas to break up long sentences:

I don't think they're just for 'catching your breath'. There are other intricacies to them.


I'm not sure you read what I wrote. Or, rather, you misinterpreted what I wrote.

*shrug*
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

ScaredyCat wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Regarding the use of commas to break up long sentences:

I don't think they're just for 'catching your breath'. There are other intricacies to them.


I'm not sure you read what I wrote.


No I didn't. I fully admit to just skimming through the thread and barging in with my own input.

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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Re: An English speaking person needed... Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Out of interest, Kawashima often points out that his speech is at nowhere near the level of his writing, do you struggle with the same?


I very rarely have a problem with speech. I always only use words I know and have heard before, so I know the pronunciation. The only time I had a problem was my school years, as I was ''learning'' new words and didn't even know how to pronounce them right.
The same would apply to my vocabulary, in written form. If there is a word I don't use that often or I've never used it in its written form, I'm never 100% sure about the spelling (sometimes I edit my posts only to correct my spelling)
As I grow older and use this language of yours more often, I get better at it.

Commas
That'd be the Czech grammar influences. If you list something, you put commas between the ''items''. You never type comma in front of the word ''and'' unless it's used as in the sentence: ''and also''.
You always make comma in front of: but, that, which, who, in order to and so on. Not easy to translate the real meaning of the rule. The rules are rather simple, I've got no problem with them, but many native speakers do. A Czech word, that will always have comma in front of it has 4-5 English equivalents to it and vice versa.

The following chapters are then focused on the types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also on the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order.

The following chapters are then focused on item no. 1, item no. 2 and item no. 3, and also item no. 4 and item no. 5.

The last place, where we put commas, is when you want to put a bit more specific information into a sentence and the sentence would also work without the bit of extra info.
For instance:
Once upon a time, in the woods I think, there was a tree.
Once upon a time there was a tree.
OR
You can't go wrong with that, I suppose.
You can't go wrong with that.

Both times you get the message and both times you do not need my extra bit of ''knowledge'' and/or ''personal opinion'', to understand the sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
I'm going to edit the summary of my thesis. It is not really a vital part of the work, but there is no reason not to do it right.

Thank you for the input, Thumbs Up Smile
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 22 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/188253/general/comma.jpg
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 12:04 - 22 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, commas can really change the meaning in a sentences.

Just look at these:
Ben is in a hurry.
and
Ben is in a coma.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 22 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm probably the worst and should be the last person to make useful comment
but I found it a bit dense.
Not stupid dense just unwieldy dense and I dimly recall being urged to strive for
economy of style and clarity on the day we did reading and writing

Here goes my version
be nice, its christmas!

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange, within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, that is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange, selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also at the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order.

Wrightly or rongly, I'd write summat like this

This thesis analyses the bills of exchange, within the Czech law system.
The first chapter is a short historical excursion focused on the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification.
(paragraph?j
The following chapters are arranged thus:
The types of bills of exchange,
Selected operations and particular kinds of bills,
The process of enforcement of the rights from the bills and the objections against the bill payment order.
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i1301243
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 22 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I'm probably the worst and should be the last person to make useful comment


I should say! You can't even format a forum post! Laughing

What's with your strange 'enter'/'return' presses everywhere?
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Error 650
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 23 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was good.

My take on it.

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange; within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange; selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills also the objections against the bill payment order.
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Val
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 12 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really could not ressist for my take on it:

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange; Why?

This version is short and tells you all you will ever need to know Very Happy

Can't beat simplicity... Laughing
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 12 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Short and descriptive, I like it. I can now fill the empty space with the adverts for stuff I want to sell at the moment. Razz Laughing
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 12 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jsmith86 wrote:
I thought it was good.

My take on it.

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange; within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange; selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills also the objections against the bill payment order.


You do not "focus at" something, you "focus on" something!

As per this dictionary definition:-

Quote:
Verb
2. Pay particular attention to.
The study will focus on particular areas of.......

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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 23:59 - 12 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
Jsmith86 wrote:
I thought it was good.

My take on it.

This diploma thesis analyses the bill of exchange; within the Czech law system. The first chapter contains a short historical excursion, which is mainly focused at the development of the bill of exchange law in our territory and its unification. The following chapters are then focused at the types of bills of exchange; selected operations and particular kinds of bills, and also the process of enforcement of the rights from the bills also the objections against the bill payment order.


You do not "focus at" something, you "focus on" something!

As per this dictionary definition:-

Quote:
Verb
2. Pay particular attention to.
The study will focus on particular areas of.......


I was always wondering, whether I should use ''focus on'' or ''focus at''. Thank you, I'm gonna keep that in mind. Thumbs Up Smile

I thought it was the same as being good ''at'' something, not ''in'' something. - Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 13 Jan 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I was always wondering, whether I should use ''focus on'' or ''focus at''. Thank you, I'm gonna keep that in mind. Thumbs Up Smile

I thought it was the same as being good ''at'' something, not ''in'' something. - Correct me if I'm wrong, please.


You can be "good" at something!
However if you were to use "in", you could say you were "well versed in something" or "proficient in something"

If you were talking about someone else you might say "Robert De Niro was good in Taxi Driver".
You would say "Robert De Niro is a good actor"!
Saying "Robert De Niro is good at acting" is not good english, it's something you would expect a child to say!

HTH!
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