Would you opt for an 11yr old Sportsbike shock?

[Pigeon]

Recently measured rider sag on 2013 ST and found it's around 43mm front (no adjustment possible) and 41 rear with the preload maxed out.
From what I've read, if you can't close the sag to nearer 30mm before maxing out the preload then you probably need a heavier spring.

The internets imply the ST has a rear shock spring of 11.28kg/mm and race-tech reckon my weight and bike require 12.44kg/mm

The standard Daytona shock from 2010 is 12.65kg/mm and a straight swap. It is considered a harsh ride by most (but I suspect that's because they are not 16st like I am). People also seem to think the compression and rebound damping are poor. 1 click off max and it does nothing, set to max and you understeer everywhere. Doesn't sound great, but I'm not taking it as Gospel.
Have seen a zero mile example for £225

Standard
Shock Length: 290mm
Spring Rate: 11.28 kg/mm
Top Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm


Daytona 675 (straight swap)
Shock Length: 295mm
Spring Rate: 12.6 kg/mm
Top Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
£225 (0 miles)


Street Triple R (straight swap)
Shock Length: 295mm
Spring Rate: 12.1kg
Top Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
£130 (8k miles)


'05 5VY R1 (straight swap)
Shock Length: 300mm
Spring Rate: 11.00 kg/mm
Top Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
£85 (10k miles)


'14+ YZF-R1 (requires the top mount to be replaced for the Yamaha one, part is cheap, often with the shock, but fitting requires fuel tank removal and some twin metal pipe thingy with locknut adjusters is in the way that I don't know what its for).
Shock Length: 300 mm
Spring Rate: 11.00 kg/mm
Top Bushing Mount Width: 32 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 30 mm
£120 (including mounting bracket - 1k miles)


'07+ CBR600R (requires bolt changes, spacers and a bit of a ballache, but generally well received, I'm not really considering this option)
Shock Length: 293 mm
Spring Rate: 11.00 kg/mm
Top Bushing Mount Width: 26 mm
Bottom Bushing Mount Width: 39 mm
£70 + £10 on spacers and bolts


The thing is, the spring rates of all the sportsbikes are even lower than what I currently (allegedly) have. What gives?
Are all R1 riders 11st? Surely if I bought the R1 shock, I'd need it re-spring to the 12-12.5kg/mm

The shock on the ST is budget, but would a 2005 R1 shock be any better? In my head I just assume it would be, and looking at the 2014 version it doesn't visually look much different to 2005.

Probably the Daytona and STR shocks are the ones to try, but been looking on ebay for a couple of weeks and there aren't that many which claim / look low mileage.

Then just to add to things, I read someone who actually tested the spring rate of the ST and it came in at 8kg/mm significantly less than claimed, and would make the 11kg/mm of the R1 not seem such a crazy option.

I've contacted Maxton, Ktech, and even eibach. Only Maxton came back with options for this year of the ST, the other companies confirmed they did not make products for the >=2012 ST.
Maxton front forks were new cartridges (non-adjustable) for £420, or £600 for adjustable.
Adjustable rear shock was £720

I'm sure their products are excellent, however I very much doubt I have enough skill to appreciate them at this stage.

Something to allow some tinkering and with a bit more quality than standard is what I'm after, not Ohlins TTX

Thoughts?

[wr6133]

I just bought a YSS shock (after my 25 year old, reconditioned 8 year ago kwak one tried to kill me).

It was the cheapest option. I'm satisfied so far, I've managed to get it set to my liking for my 16 stone lard arse.

[Scythe]

Have you tried Nitron? Generally a bit cheaper
____________________
2009 Yamaha YBR125 -> 2000 SV650S -> 2005 Kawasaki ZX6R 636

[Pigeon]

Cool, will take a look at both, thanks

[Pigeon]

Strangely, having looked for Daytona shocks on ebay for a month or so, 4 possibles were on there now.

So went with a 2011 model, looks in OK condition but will soon see.

A straight swap with what I have and crucially (according to Racetech) the correct spring weight for my lardy arse

Adds 5mm to the rear height (something I liked about the R model over the ST) and I get to tit about with damping.

Front forks, I'll leave alone, I might try 7.5w and reducing the airgap by 5mm.

Fingers crossed.

[stinkwheel]

No I wouldn't.

After recfent experience, I'd phone Wilbers and tell them my bike, how heavy I am, how I ride and what I take on the bike. I'd then buy what they suggest and set it up how they recommend.

I'd do the same with the fork springs because sag isn't just the shock. Both wheels need to be on the road.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[CaNsA]

I'm rocking a 1992 ZXR400 with a £600 Nitron 3-way race shock.

[Pigeon]

[stinkwheel]

I've spent more on brakes and suspension on my current main bike that I paid for the whole bike.

Totally worth it.

Very few bikes have more power than their chassis can cope with. Very few riders can use all the power their bike can give them anyway. Most of us could go round corners better.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[evoboy]

[stevo as b4]

I'm using an adjustable Wilbers shock on my Kmx 125. As I'd Stinkwheel said they custom build it to your weight, carrying capacity and intended use/riding style. They also have ride height adjustment. Mine was £470 but definitely worth it, even though I had to wait around 6weeks for delivery from Germany.

[jjdugen]

Trouble with spring rates is that each model of motorcycle will have different leverage ratios from the linkage. Tie bar / triangle length and shape can have just as much an effect as spring rate.
I've noticed that recent models use much longer triangles than earlier mono shock designs and there is no doubt that they appear to give far better suspension action.
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The CBR900RR has been sold. Aprilia Falco worms its way into my heart.
Try Soi 23 on Amazon for a good read.... Self promotion? Moi?

[chris-red]

I spent £900 sorting the Suspension on my TDM, it is the bollocks now.

If you want to do it cheaper. Speak to Hagon. You should be able to get springs and a custom shock for £4-500
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[Old Git Racing]

You need to do something with the front if you go down the route of longer/harder spring rear shock. It will be even more shite than it normally is.
I'd go for a custom shock, new. Might be expensive but worth it. Get the forks done too or it will be a waste of money.

OGR
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2022 Tiger Sport 660 2019 Street Twin 2003 K3 gixxer 1000 1998 Srad 600 track hack

[Pigeon]

This is another reason I enjoy asking questions in BCF rather than model specific forums, because the answers reveal a lot more useful information about how things work in general. And are another reminder how little I know or understand.

I think the Wilbers / Hagon / Maxton route is something I'm now focused on if my Daytona purchase turns out to be a dog.

Like I said, the Daytona shock from essentially the same bike, it even has the same drop & drag links. It's the same shock used in the STR, just with a slightly stiffer spring.

If I had my time again, I'd have gone for the STR, but I didn't. Which is going to leave me with a little headache over what to do about the front. And without buying the whole frontend of an STR there aren't many options except Maxton's new adjustable cartridges which is £700 and £150 to fit them because if going down that route, I'm going there in person with the bike to get it done properly. And if I'm doing that, I'm getting the rear done too.

Another possibility is looking at the cost of upgrading the front / rear suspension and the cost of trading my bike in for an STR....... would be like selling a member of the family though

If Triumph are going to release a new ST(+R etc) in 2017, then maybe I'll just hang on and start saving now. Either using the cash to pay towards the difference in price of this bike to a new model STR in 2017, or paying a visit to Maxton and getting this one sorted.

Either way, better start saving

[stevo as b4]

From what I hear the street3 is a good handling and very fun bike to ride. Therefore to get the best from it and make the most of the capable chassis and motor, then I think it's definitely worth throwing a grand of your cash into getting the suspension just right for your build and riding requirements too.

The NOS daytona shock might work well at the back, but there's no way I'd ever put a secondhand sportsbike shock on from another model and expect good things. Used suspension parts on a decent bike seem a waste of time/money when just going for a custom built option for a bit more cash will sort it 100% without doubts or hours of extra work fiddling around.

[mjn51]

You could always take a ride out to the experts MCT, check their website.
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Triumph Trophy SE Silver (launch model)

[Pigeon]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Ohlins eBay search. Pick up a cosmetically good one (flog any which disappoint in that department), then have it professionally serviced and re-sprung by Harris (yeah, THE Harris!) in Hertford. Not all that cheap but you end up with the best, although you have to be patient. I've done this for the ZX6 and the R1.

[Pigeon]

The shock arrived, and I was really happy with it's condition. Got lucky!

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160129_183000.resized_zpsh4xomcn0.jpg

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160129_182803.resized_zpst7qa7bla.jpg

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160129_182808.resized_zpsmtq1pxxv.jpg

Dialled in default settings.

Then my luck ran out.

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160130_135928.resized_zpspypzjviu.jpg

The shock reservoir was hitting the plastic undertray. This should have been a clue that something wasn't right because this was supposed to be a "straight swap".

Fuel tank off, undid the upper mount and added the 4mm Daytona spacer (both the STR and Daytona have a spacer between the mount and the frame, the ST does not).
It was not enough, so I added 2 M16 washers which added a further 5.5mm

It worked
https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160130_162328.resized_zpsf6pp0hqw.jpg

Sort of.
https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160130_162414.resized_zpsye0ll0pi.jpg

Drag link is exactly 20mm away from the drop link.

I've just double checked and the ST, STR and Daytona have, since their inceptions, had the same drag + drop links. The part numbers are the same. So why won't it reach........as I type this, I've just realised I have forgotten about the large block of wood I wedged under the rear wheel to support it's weight when the shock came out

Will check.

[temeluchus]

That shock looks to be the same design of unit as fitted to various GSXR1000 models, I have one retrofitted to my old GSXR. Spring rate is on the firm side but that's fine as you may recall I am a colossal lard bucket.

I had the front forks done on my GSX-R 1100 by maxton for a total of 650 quid. All the bushings were pretty shagged and the oil was apparently mostly water. Night and day, the thing now doesn't nosedive when I brake yet is nice and compliant over bumps.
____________________
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[Pigeon]

[Pigeon]

Question is now, should I cut the undertray?

Standard shock is 292mm eye to eye.

Daytona is +3mm at 295mm

I've added the 4mm Daytona spacer + a further 5.5mm in 2 stainless M16 washers between the frame and the top mount.

The shock fits now, but the reservoir is HARD up against the undertray. There is now only 1 line of thread showing on the top mount bolt.

I've added 12.5mm to the shock length from bottom eye to frame.

Should I cut the undertray, remove 1 or 2 of the spacers (get back to the +7mm total increase) and free up some threads on the mount bolt.

Or should I count my blessings, add some threadlock and button up?

[Matt B]

The biggest issue with jacking the rear ride height up is that it reduces the rake of the front. You've also got a stiffer spring now so it's going to stay jacked up and not sag much to compensate when you sit on it. Could mean some reduced straight line stability but in reality probably not. They only thing to do is get out and ride it, see how it feels.
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stinkwheel: He had an animated .gif of a cat performing fellatio. It's not socially acceptable. It can have real life adverse effects on other people.

[Pigeon]

Well, I decided I couldn't take her out knowing it wasn't at the same setting as the STR. I wanted to remove the 5.5mm of extra spacers I'd put in on top of the Daytona's 4mm.

So I got the Dremel out and cued the music

Spent about 5 hours taking a little out at a time from the undertray, then re-torquing the shock to check, then taking it out again and repeating.
On the 4th attempt I think I cracked it, no gaps all the way round where I'd cut. Then I decided I wanted a small gap to prove the shock wasn't be restricted. So had a 5th run at it. Shaved too much in one place, got a hole now

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160131_160456.resized_zpsuvfybmcj.jpg

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160131_192312.resized_zpspaxc5iwb.jpg

It could have gone better (I should have bought a >=2013 shock!!)

But really pleased with the result so far

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160130_163809.resized_zpslqzegj8h.jpg

https://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w559/pigeon35/160130%20-%20Shock%20and%20Awe/20160131_192247.resized_zps7xpdkxko.jpg

On the old rear shock at max preload:

Static Sag on the front was 31.5
Rider Sag on the front was 43

Static Sag on rear was 2.6
Rider Sag on rear was 41


On the new rear shock at about 60% preload:

Static Sag on the front now 28 (which I did not expect)
Rider Sag on the front now 43

Static Sag on the rear now 8
Rider Sag on the rear now 36

I sat on the bike a bit and it felt ok, clearly firmer and a bit higher.
I've just got the 4mm Daytona spacer in there.
From the edge end of the swingarm to the bottom of my indicator has gone up 25mm, which should mean the seat height is up around 20mm I guess, which is the difference between the ST and STR.

Will measure seat height next weekend before taking her out.

If I don't like it, then I think there is enough room to take out the 4mm spacer and swap it with a 2.7mm one. Don't think it's possible to have no spacer.

It felt ok in the garage, but I need 60mins on the road to know for sure.

Also now need to adjust topbox bracket down a bit.