Indicators taking a good few seconds to engage

supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

Haven't had a chance to have a good look at this yet but I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this type of issue.

Got through my MOT on monday fine, I did mention to him the indicators are reacting slowly to the switch which he did agree with but they did work (eventually) so it's still a pass.

Basically, I'll flick the switch and it could take 5+ seconds for the indicators to start working, after which they flash fine but as you can imagine, 5 seconds later I'm most likely already round the corner and up the road so it's not that helpful.

My 1st thought is that the relay is on its way out which presents its own problems as honda, for some stupid reason, integrated it into the instrument cluster so I'm going to have to rewire the loom to bypass it (I've seen various guides on this, shouldn't be a problem but why honda?? why?)

I've ordered a load independant relay and may look to doing some rewiring this weekend.

So yeh, just wondering if anyone else has had the prob and would you think a relay swap fix the issue?

# Bikes a 2003 CBR954 FireBlade
# Indicators are standard bulbs, not LED
# Battery is fine, it's pretty new and kept on my smart charger most of the time. Bike starts and runs on the button every time

Cheers
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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

Minty · World Chat Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Karma :

Was same on my 97 Fireblade. Sticky switch cured with silicone spray in the gaps either side of the lever hole. I give at another squirt every MOT.
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Matt B · World Chat Champion Joined: 01 May 2012 Karma :

supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

So you just reckon the contacts need cleaning up?

I should point out it's not like I'm holding the button left or right until it finally kicks in. I literally just flick it as normal and some time later it kicks in. That doesn't sound like a switch problem to me.

The switch isn't 'sticky', moves back and forth fine, cancels fine.

Why would cleaning the switch (not that it's a bad thing to do) help?
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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

Minty · World Chat Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Karma :

Mine did not feel sticky but did not respond instantly (a second or so).

It is free and easy. What have you to lose yo?
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supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

Can't hurt, just don't understand how it would help with my issue but more than happy to be proved wrong. As said, I don't think it's a switch contact issue

High beam switch sticks a bit so I need to 'lube' up the switchgear on that side anyway.

We'll see Smile

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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

Minty · World Chat Champion Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Karma :

* results may vary.

My experience of automotive relays has been that they work or they don't. Have never had me a 'slow' relay. Stand to be corrected though. Thumbs Up

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Matt B · World Chat Champion Joined: 01 May 2012 Karma :

Mine was doing exactly the same. Move the switch across, wait a few seconds, indicators blink. A squirt of WD40, some wiggling and pushing sorted it.

Try it or don't but it's a lot quicker and easier than stripping the switchgear apart and cheaper than replacing a relay that's not faulty.
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Islander · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :

As above, push the switch to one side and squirt some contact cleaner into the slot then work the switch. Push the switch to the other side and work it again. Repeat as necessary. Thumbs Up

supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

Matt B · World Chat Champion Joined: 01 May 2012 Karma :

That's all we are saying, try the easy/free job first. No guarantee it's your problem but it has been known to work. Thumbs Up

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Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

Aye...classic switch fault, the grease put on at the factory goes off over time and leaves a film on the contacts or prevents the contacts moving as they should. It's best to strip the switch down if you can but it's fiddly and you have to be carefull of any tiny ball bearings and springs shooting out and getting lost. You could open the switch up and clean it the best you can without striping it. I'd use some GT spray or other contact cleaner and cocktail sticks. You can use cotton buds but make sure they don't leave any loose cotton on the contacts. Pick off as much of the old grease as you can and stick some new on. Can't remember what I used last time, may have been whatever was to hand so probably silicone grease, dunno if that's the best or not.It's not easy cleaning it properly without removing the arm and the slider but should work.
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Islander · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :

First you have to understand how flasher relays work. They rely on a heating coil wrapped around a bimetallic strip, when you flick the switch over it passes current through the heating coil to the lamp. That causes the bimetallic strip to heat up and bend, breaking the contact and turning the lamp off. It then cools and the cycle starts over.

If your indicator switch has oxidisation or crud on the contacts, then it won't pass the current needed to make the relay operate properly and that will introduce a delay. Clean the contact and the problem should go away. Use electrical contact cleaner for this as it'll not only shift any contaminants, but also leave a film of lubricant on everything. Thumbs Up

supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

OP. I've just dug a Honda switch out....is yours the type where you flick it to the side, it returns, then you push it in to cancel? If so, I'll strip this one down and take some pics.

This is what they look like when covered in degraded grease and muck:-

https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103555_zpsjs7g0dgx.jpg
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supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

Vincent, yeh that's the one.

Cool cheers, that'll be good to see Smile

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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

You can do this with the switch still attatched to the bike, you'd have to unplug it first...but I wouldn't recommend it, you're dealing with small parts and you're better of on a workbench or table. I find it best to work on a piece of cloth or rag, it stops things sliding about and makes it harder for stuff to roll away. Use a normal sized phillips/pozidriv screwdriver for the small screws and don't round them off, they can be stuck quite fast. Cup the half of the switch firmly in one hand while undoing the screws with the other...just don't slip and go thorugh your hand with the driver.

First part, unscrew the small philips on the lever, the one the lever pivots on:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103558_zpsirfg2g7o.jpg

Remove the small brass bush sitting underneath:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103559_zpsjjcgoazq.jpg

Remove the small phillips holding the wire retainer on. The retainer is a shaped bit of steel designed to stop the lead getting puled or chafing on the handlebars, this'll make it possible for the switch unit to be removed:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103560_zps4p8num7h.jpg

Remove said wire retainer:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103561_zpsq4cxp8e4.jpg

Remove small phillips that holds on the switch lever plate:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103562_zpsrrcfaymt.jpg

brb.. Embarassed

OK..Next, carefully tease the wiring out of the switch, thus:-

https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103564_zpstdohpknu.jpg

Here, I'm pointing out where the spring will appear from, there's a good chance it wil be gunked up so shouldn't "ping" out, just don't lose it. Also note that I've removed the pivot screw from the horn switch, you don't really need to do this unless you want to clean out the horn switch too. They tend not to get as messed up as the indicator switch but worth looking over and remove to clean if you wish.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103566_zpsnaf32bmc.jpg

Switch unit is now out of the switch housing and here you can see the ball bearing still in place:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103567_zpssys2yneq.jpg

Push the ball out from the other side with...well, anything you like.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103568_zpsvpblcpid.jpg

Spring and ball:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103571_zpsonaoha60.jpg

This is the switch proper. Note it is made of of three parts, two of which, the black part and the centre white part, are housing the slider contacts. You have to get these apart...
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103569_zpsffg9gp4q.jpg

Here's where they're held together, the black part has two clips that clip into the holes in the other part. Gently open one side up to release that sides clip. DONT BREAK IT Exclamation

https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103572_zps0cfnvc88.jpg

When one side is out, you can pull the switch assembly apart to show the contacts. This is what you should have. Note the ball in the white part that holds the contacts, this is for locating the slider in it's three positions - Left, right and centre. This ball should stay in place while the switch is apart.

https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103574_zpsqela3tzh.jpg

Just clean these lot up now, degreaser is good, I'm using a spot of degreaser to start then some contact cleaner. Be carefull with the smaller of the two white parts of the switch, don't lose or bend the contacts while cleaning as they're loose.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103563_zps2kaeauqg.jpg

After a good dousing with degreaser and leaving for a few minutes, I use cocktail sticks to get into the smaller spaces, again be careful around the contacts:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103575_zpsc1puli1w.jpg

Be back after I've cleaned them up but assembly is just the reverse, just add grease to the moving components - the spring and ball, and the sliding part of the switch. I'm using silicone grease but that's probably not the best. I'm sure I'll soon find out Very Happy

Will add bits if I think of any
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Islander · World Chat Champion Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Karma :

Where's the picture of the tiny ball bearings and springs pinging out in opposite directions? Laughing

Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

Rebuild...bear in mind, I havn't used any grease because this switch has been replaced with a new one and won't be used. and I couldn't be arsed looking for any
You need to put grease on the moving parts, esp the white plastic switch housing and sliders.

Bits ready for re-assembly, note the screw with the washer bottom left, make sure you keep this for the lever.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103577_zps0yclqxvv.jpg

Clean the black contacts that are wired to the switch.
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103578_zpsocgnn3v7.jpg

Clip the three parts of the switch back together and slide the assembly back in place in the switch housing, make sure it's in it's slots and the middle part of the switch with the contacts on is in the central position:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103580_zpspawtolr2.jpg

Put the pivot base plate back and screw on. Make sure you use the self tappers, the ordinary screw is for the pivot:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103581_zpsea9vtrkq.jpg

Put the spring in place:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103583_zpsxo6aklij.jpg

Followed by the ball...this should click into place and stay there, keep an eye on it tho:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103584_zpsvbdinevs.jpg

Put the bush in place:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103582_zpsoxbanzvd.jpg

Slide the switch lever into the top of the switch so it pushes against the ball and so it fits onto the brass bush:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103586_zpsddqk6ewb.jpg

Washer on top then screw the lever into position:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103587_zpstditgbha.jpg
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103588_zpsopzuisae.jpg

Place the wiring into position, if you don't get it right, the switch won't want to close properly when you come to stick it back on the handlebars:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103589_zpsm6ya49fy.jpg

Tuck it down into the well on the switch body so it fits in snugly:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103590_zpsnzkocmhf.jpg

Screw the wiring retainer plate into position:-
https://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j71/Drewskovitch/Jap%2070s%20bike%20toys/Bike%20toys/P3103591_zpsgtncmivd.jpg

And Bob should be your uncle Thumbs Up

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Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

I think the reason there's a delay when these switches get gunked up is because part of the plastic slider that's spring loaded get's stuck open.....just for a second ot two..then closes as it should to make contact.
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supZ · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Karma :

That's some awesome information there! Very nice indeed

I had a look at it when I got home from work and well.. mine looks a fair sight better than that one Wink

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1594/25054950943_66204e51ce_b.jpg

Ironically, the moment I tried it when it was apart it kicked in immediately. Neutral

I still gave it a bit of a squirt with WD40 on the sides and did the same to my high beam switch which is now moving freely, so that's something.

Put it all back together and it appears to be working fine again.. both annoying and not annoying that there doesn't appear to be anything wrong and it's coming on when expected but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth so I'll see how it goes and if it starts playing up again I'll come back and follow your guide to dismantle it.

Thanks again for that by the way, that could help a lot of people Smile

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CBR954RR - Daily toy
CBR600RR - Trackbike

Vincent · Banned Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :

You see that blob of yellow grease? That's grease that's gone off and become sticky....there's your problem. Stick a match end in it and you'll see what I mean. It's not as much the muck that makes the switch misbehave but the sticky old grease Thumbs Up

It's different to the grease you use on bearings etc, it's called dielectric grease or something like that, it seems to go off in less time and ends up like treacle.
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mauzo · Nova Slayer Joined: 30 Jun 2015 Karma :

DrDonnyBrago · World Chat Champion Joined: 03 Jan 2010 Karma :

My 2001 CBR6f does that every now and then.

I take the switchgear apart, clean out all the manky grease and reapply the smallest amount I think I can get away with.

That cures it for a few years.