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Gazz
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Choke holds Reply with quote

I'm not really into MMA as such. If it's on I'll watch it but wouldn't go out of my way to watch it. However something which has puzzled me recently after seeing a recent fight, was; why do the fighters tap out basically as soon as a choke hold is applied?

If a choke hold restricts you taking a breath, surely they should be able to hold on for a minute or so - taking into consideration that they might already be a little out of breath from fighting.

Am I missing something?
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lihp
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Re: Choke holds Reply with quote

Gazz wrote:
I'm not really into MMA as such. If it's on I'll watch it but wouldn't go out of my way to watch it. However something which has puzzled me recently after seeing a recent fight, was; why do the fighters tap out basically as soon as a choke hold is applied?

If a choke hold restricts you taking a breath, surely they should be able to hold on for a minute or so - taking into consideration that they might already be a little out of breath from fighting.

Am I missing something?


They will know when they're beaten. There's no point continuing if you're in the hold and it's well applied. May as well tap before injury.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Re: Choke holds Reply with quote

Gazz wrote:
I'm not really into MMA as such. If it's on I'll watch it but wouldn't go out of my way to watch it. However something which has puzzled me recently after seeing a recent fight, was; why do the fighters tap out basically as soon as a choke hold is applied?

If a choke hold restricts you taking a breath, surely they should be able to hold on for a minute or so - taking into consideration that they might already be a little out of breath from fighting.

Am I missing something?


Because its probably a stranglehold which crushes the artaries and restricts blood flow to the brain causing unconscious.

Also probably to avoid having their wind pipe crushed or damaged.

Properly applied stangle/choke holds are pretty dangerous, theres a fine line between unconscious and killing someone.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Re: Choke holds Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:


Because its probably a stranglehold which crushes the artaries and restricts blood flow to the brain causing unconscious.

Also probably to avoid having their wind pipe crushed or damaged.

Properly applied stangle/choke holds are pretty dangerous, theres a fine line between unconscious and killing someone.


^ This, if you restrict the blood flow through the carotid artery, you're going night night in 10-20 seconds anyway. Plus, having that crushing pressure on the sides of your neck where its not particularly muscular, is really really fucking painful.

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DRZ4Hunned
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PostPosted: 23:28 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

For professional MMA I'd imagine it's to maintain a record. i.e. TKO, KO or submission.
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lihp
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRZ4Hunned wrote:
For professional MMA I'd imagine it's to maintain a record. i.e. TKO, KO or submission.


Erm, you do realise it's the loser who taps out? So won't have that record to maintain...........
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 24 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's entirely down to the fact that choke/strangle holds are nasty and particularly effective.

I've had a few slapped on me when I was doing martial arts, even a lightly applied one in practice is incredibly uncomfortable.
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Last edited by duhawkz on 00:31 - 25 Mar 2016; edited 1 time in total
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DRZ4Hunned
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

lihp wrote:
DRZ4Hunned wrote:
For professional MMA I'd imagine it's to maintain a record. i.e. TKO, KO or submission.


Erm, you do realise it's the loser who taps out? So won't have that record to maintain...........


Erm, yeah. But they do have records of no submissions etc.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 00:28 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild guess pulled out of my bum.

But I'm going to say it's a gentleman's agreement that if you are in such a position the person doing the choking doesn't really choke you. And the person being 'choked' taps out in order to respect the fact he was moved into such a position.

Sort of like in European martial arts. Sure a sword touch won't hurt you but you concede that it does.

In that doing this minimises injury on both sides.

The 'chokee' might get a life/death survival response, the kind that would tear their own muscles and ruin their tendons. The choker probably doesn't want to be anywhere near somebody who has such a response.

Sort of like when you see it takes 4+ police to restrain one person who is freaking out.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would somebody go through some of the beatings i've seen meated out in mma only to tap out because the other guy puts an arm round their neck.
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Hefty
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PostPosted: 00:51 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
Why would somebody go through some of the beatings i've seen meated out in mma only to tap out because the other guy puts an arm round their neck.


I guess being able to take a slap is a different kettle of fish to being unable to breathe.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a sport fight worth permanent brain damage?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 01:44 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
Why would somebody go through some of the beatings i've seen meated out in mma only to tap out because the other guy puts an arm round their neck.


Why do you think water boarding is so effective?

The individuals it is used against are in no danger of really drowning but the sensation of death and inability to breathe is rather effective at bending them to your will.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 01:53 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
Why would somebody go through some of the beatings i've seen meated out in mma only to tap out because the other guy puts an arm round their neck.


Why do you think water boarding is so effective?

The individuals it is used against are in no danger of really drowning but the sensation of death and inability to breathe is rather effective at bending them to your will.


People are in a lot of real danger when being water boarded, ever heard of dry drowning, people suffering cardiac failure from it etc. The reason it used is is beacuse its effective and it need very little equipment and it doesn't leave marks.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also did you even read my first post in this thread about how strangle hold work or how dangerous they are?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 02:00 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
Also did you even read my first post in this thread about how strangle hold work or how dangerous they are?


Yes I did.

Which is as I said you're suddenly in a holy crap situation one that isn't going to improve. So why actually get choked silly and do what you will be forced to do in an unpleasant manner in 20 seconds anyway.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 02:05 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
Also did you even read my first post in this thread about how strangle hold work or how dangerous they are?


Yes I did.

Which is as I said you're suddenly in a holy crap situation one that isn't going to improve. So why actually get choked silly and do what you will be forced to do in an unpleasant manner in 20 seconds anyway.


No what you suggested was there was some kind of ye old gentlemans agreement that chokee give up in a 'thou hast bested me fine sir' kind of way

In which case why get a beating at all
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 02:07 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
In which case why get a beating at all


Because a beating isn't a check mate position? Plus there are varying degrees of injury.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 02:14 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
In which case why get a beating at all


Because a beating isn't a check mate position? Plus there are varying degrees of injury.


It not medieval knights of yore, its two bloke beating the shit out of each other for a shit load of money.

Why would they get a beating and give the money up for a pretend arm round the neck, besides if not fully applied then surely there the potential to escape it.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 02:26 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:


It not medieval knights of yore, its two bloke beating the shit out of each other for a shit load of money.

Why would they get a beating and give the money up for a pretend arm round the neck, besides if not fully applied then surely there the potential to escape it.



Looking around $50K? For life changing potential injuries that isn't a whole load of money.

Plus you do realise that tapping out and submitting IS a form of gentlemen's agreement that one party has had enough and the other is the winner right?

Poking around those who ignore tap outs tend to get banned.
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andym
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PostPosted: 02:34 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit I've only ever watched a couple of fights, but I found this on youtube.... which might be NSFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HALf3esHQJ0 (top 20 UFC submissions)

There is a lot of choke hold submissions in that video and from what I can tell, they know they are beat, so they tap out before they pass out. Same with stretching their arm, they tap out before (usually) it breaks, although I have seen a clip where the arm was broken before the submission
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 02:40 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

andym wrote:
I have to admit I've only ever watched a couple of fights, but I found this on youtube.... which might be NSFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HALf3esHQJ0 (top 20 UFC submissions)

There is a lot of choke hold submissions in that video and from what I can tell, they know they are beat, so they tap out before they pass out. Same with stretching their arm, they tap out before (usually) it breaks, although I have seen a clip where the arm was broken before the submission


Exactly they tap out before they pass out because they are in a fully applied technique that is hurting and putting them a risk of injury.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 03:08 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at fight 19, its about 30 seconds in.

He doesn't tap out because he's acknowledged some unwritten rule or as some mark of respect to the other guy for getting him in that position as itchy suggests.

He is tapping out because the other guy is actually really choking the fuck out of him and he wants it to end.
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Last edited by duhawkz on 03:21 - 25 Mar 2016; edited 1 time in total
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thx1138
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 25 Mar 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0VEFalOnyQ
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