Help af1 (kickstart :-) )

[steve09]

ok well i just couldnt reisit temptaion,, i live out in country on a almost private road and i just had to ride bike up and down hehe.everyone elses had a go but me,
it bumped and run nicely, i noticed in first from about 4k-6 it dosent seem to pull at all and almost splutter but i surpose it was kinda cold,
2nd gear rules
any way after my ride i stop bike and the side stand broke lol one of the bolts snapped then i try to start it on button and nothing really happened so i tryed to bump it and it sounds like its just running in gear its not reving, faster u push it more it revs thats about it lol,

soo ive taken carb off sorta, all but the choke cable as the screw is really in there, i was gonna clean carb but i dont really know what i got to do so i thought id ask,, also battery is near enuff flat could this be why its not starting when i try to bump it?,

also,,, i cant for the life of me get the fuel gauge to work,, the 3 wires on back of tanks what order do they go in lol i can get it too go right up and right down but not indicate how much fuel is in there,

cheers
steve

[Scotsman37]

You need to improve your grammar & spelling

[steve09]

sorry ill edit it,
the spelling is down to my dislexia if i type to fast and not think about what im writeing i make mistakes, no excuse for gramma though,

cheers
steve

[M1ke]

Have you tried starting the bike in neutral? If the side stands broke it could be messing with the side stand cut off switch (so the bike won't start if its in gear)

Alternativly, you could have hit the kill switch.

[steve09]

well it dosent like to start on the button i think battery needs charging ive had to bump it since i got it,, do these things have a side stand cut out????
abd u saying bout kill switch theres a fine line switch on handel car i may of flicked it but i cant renmber wht way it gose lol,, ive tryed it in both postions but nether seems to make a defnace

[M1ke]

If its the side stand switch thats at fault then bump starting won't work since the bike won't start when its in gear.

Is there fuel coming out the tank when you pull the rubber hose off the tap?

[Kickstart]

Hi

There is no side stand cut out switch on these normally.

The ignition system is seperate from the charging system and battery and it should not care as long as the battery has enough power to turn it over quickly enough, and certainly not when bumping it.

For the carb take the float bowl off the bottom (14mm spanner required) and clean it out. Use carb cleaner to clean all the jets out. If it has been sat for ages then there is a rubber O ring around one jet that might be perished (on the choke circuit I think) so that might need replacing. There is a filter under the banjo shaped piece where the fuel pipe connects.

However it is a pig to get fuel into the fuel pipe . From the fuel tap the pipe goes up and over the carb, and gets air bubbles in there (obvious if you replace the fuel hose with clear stuff). Takes a fair amount of wiggling to sort this out (disconnect the fuel tap from the frame so that you can hold it higher than the carb). Otherwise you land up with a tiny bit of fuel in the carb (this might well be your problem).

the fuel gauge just uses a float to lift a contact along a variable resistor. It will only work with the tank the right way up. From memory it is the orange wire to the front, grey to the back and the blue in the middle (this is what it is on the early AF1, cannot remember for certain with the Sintesi).

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

ok today cleaned carb wasnt too dirty cleaned the filter thing in carb and blew all jets with a airline,
now i come across some more problems hehe,
ok first thing is no spark, i took out spark pulg tryed it on frame nothing even tryed bumping it and watching for a spark,
ne ideas wht could be causeing no spark?/ spark plugsa new but i did notice the HT lead i think its called sorta just pulls out the rubber spark plug holder, didnt wana touch it till i asked u guys lol,
and on the side with the carb adjusters theres a thick hose tht comes out of the gearbox filler cap then just ends is tht ment to be pluged in somewere???
cheers
steve

[Scotsman37]

If you use a large plastic handled screwdriver and place it across the solenoid points and see if it starts your engine. Be carefull as you could electrocute yourself if you don't hold the screwdriver properly, but it will let you know if the engine will start.

Another thing you could do is inspect your electrical wiring loom block connections and to check the fuses in the fuse box as one or more of them could be faulty. Also when inspecting the block connections give them a spray with WD40 just in case there's water/muck grounding the electricity.

[Kickstart]

Hi

The orange wire from the coil connects to a red and white wire in the loom. This is for the kill switch, so ensure this is not earthing out anywhere (the kill switch / ignition switch works by earthing this wire).

Also check that the kill switch is not flicked off. Very easy to do on this switchgear.

There are no fuses on the ignition system. Indeed there are only a few wires (the already mentioned one, plus a red, a green and a black wire) from the stator to the coil. The only other wires from the stator are the yellow (or blue) wires to the regulator / rectifier and these have nothing to do with the ignition system.

If it is not cranking over then check the relay. It is a small alloy box on the front n/s frame rail, just near the horn. Has 2 large wires and 2 small wires, all connecting with spade connectors.

If does sound like your HT lead is dodgy. Either get a new piece (it is cheap and most bike mechanics should have some) or trim 5mm off each end (the bits at the end break up so it no longer makes decent contact). The lead screws into the cap and the coil.

The thick hose is just the gearbox breather. Think it is meant to go into a small hole just over the rear sprocket.

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

cheers kick true guru (think thts how its spelt)
ok soo ill check all the mention wires,
and do the lead mods,
and ill let ya know tomara wht i find,,
just quickly when u say the kill switch do you mean the fuel switch on handelbar? i finsh work at 4 so i only really get an hour to sorta mess bout before it gets dark,
thanks alot
steve

[Scotsman37]

There is such a thing as a fuse for the ignition and so have another look at Haynes' electrical diagram if you don't beleive me!

[Kickstart]

Hi

On the r/h switchgear there is the kill switch. A small rocker switch that cuts the ignition. Not that much of a click to the action of it so quite easy to catch.

On many bikes when the kill switch is in the off position (ie, engine not running) then the starter is also disabled. However with the AF1 the starter will still quite happily spin.

[Scotsman37]

Ok, I made a mistake about that one because on newer bikes since mid 90's as they usually do have them, but where is the 2 * 15 amp fuses to be found on the AF1's electrical diagram.

P.S. this pic is actually taken from the AF1's service manual

[Kickstart]

Hi

That looks like the wiring diagram for the 50, while Steve has a 1988 model AF1 125 Sintesi (the one with the pneumatic power valve). The giveaway is the single wire from the alternator to the regulator / rectifier unit.

Only those with the later ignition system (and thus the Rotax 122 engine) will have a fuse in the ignition system, while the early RS125 and all the alloy frames AF1 125s used the Rotax 123 engine with SEM ignition, on which the stator connects directly to the coil (no seperate CDI unit). The original 1987 model AF1 (steel framed) used the Rotax 127 engine which also used a version of the SEM ignition system (but with fixed ignition timing, where the later ones had some advance / retard dependent on revs). There seems to be no definate switch over from the 123 engine to the 122 engine on the RS, almost as though they phased the new engine in over a few years from about 1996 to about 1999.

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

lol ok ne 2stroke experts live in or near ashford kent n wana come down my house and fix this sodding bike for me

i got spark but i dont think the carb is set up probaly after i rebuilt it i followed manul and wht not but when i open one screw its ethier open and pissing out petrol or closed u know not sure if thts right screw hehe,,
best i got all night was it to fire up for 5secs then died,
sometimes it sounds like im not gettin a spark but now i dont kniw and me arms kill from running it up and down road all night lol.
i was gonna charge battery today but got soo angry just walked away,
any one got any more ideas or can type me a simple plain of things to check,,
cheers
steve

[Kickstart]

Hi

Afraid I am miles away, getting on for 200 of them!

There are only 2 real adjustments on the outside of the carb. The idle speed (just get it running and set that to your preference) and the air screw which should be one turn out.

The large bolt on the bottom hold the main jet, and should be tightened up fully.

The bolt holding the banjo on for the fuel pipe should also be tightened up fully.

Get a spare car battery and use some jump leads which should save you bump starting it. Just be careful with the jump leads.

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

ok had a little play i can not find 2 screws ne were on the carb just the one with a spring soo i set it to one turn and bike started,
it ran for aboit 20secs and died,, i found out the the spark plug is busted soo i need one of these as the spark after a while will stop working and can be seen firing up at the rong place or soemthing,, also could do with ne HT lead and coil????
also theres a tube coming from the gearbox up to the carb, this tube is really stiff and io cant blow down it or suck its just like a soild tube of rubber is it ment to be like this?? i noticed all the pipes are in this sorta stiff conditon any idea if they sell a replacement kit and how much it is if they do??
cheers
steve

[Kickstart]

Hi

If you have a dodgy spark plug then this will cause major problems. Sometimes you can check a plug and see a spark, but due to an internal short it is sparking between the outer electrode / body of the plug to the engine. Of course once bolted into the head this means that there is no gap for it to spark over.

I really hope the coil is fine. Check the numbers on it. Should be 101.815.xx (cannot remember the xx bit) and the wires from the stator to the regulator / rectifier should be light blue. If there is that number on the coil but yellow wires to the regulator / rectifier then it will have problems (have tried this by mistake though, and they just seem to not rev beyond 6000rpm).

The HT lead and cap can be cheaply replaced. If you are unsure about them then just replace them.

The tube up from the gearbox filler should not go to the carb as it is a breather hose. On most it just goes to above the front sprocket (so at least when you overfill the gearbox with oil the excess goes onto the chain). I would not worry about these pipes much, as they are not really essential for the engine to run properly.

This might help you:-

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=17124

Third picture down you can see the idle air screw (to the far left of the left hand carb, looks to be brass). This is for adjusting the mixture at very small throttle openings, and is the one that is specified in the owners handbook to be 1 turn out. The more turns this is open the leaner the mixture will be (some carbs have mixture screws which work the opposite way). It is possible that someone has fitted a carb off another bike though, as the PHBH carb is used on loads of 125s (including the NSR and the Mito).

The idle speed adjuster you just have to adjust while the engine is running really. No real setting of "one turn out" or anything like that.

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

Grr bloody bike lol
ok i went up brought a new spark plug £6.50 cos it needs a speiocal one :-S
got home new spark in worked fine got bke running adgusted carb pretty much sorted it out was fine adgusting it uit was ticking iover fine and everyhting went in for dinner came out tryed to start it nothing,,,tryed bumopong nothing checked spary plug covered in a blackoil and didnt spark soo ive nakered aniother spark plug,, what could be courseing these to keep going??
cheers
steve

[Kickstart]

Hi

Probably worth checking the oil pump settings. Also check that you are not using gearbox oil. If you have got the carb about right it tends to suggest that the problem may not just be jetting, so oil (either excess 2 stroke, or gearbox oil from a leaking main bearing seal) is possible. Given that you left the engine for a bit them it is also possible that the float needle is sticking and allowing petrol to drain into the engine when parked.

2 stroke plugs do not normally last that long, and leaving them idling does tend to kill them, but I would expect them to survive being idled long enough to set it up.

Also it might be worth draining the crankcase just in case there is loads of fuel floating around in there. There is a bolt under the engine just in front of the starter motor. This is used for setting the ignition timing, but also does a good job of doubling as a drain for the crankcase.

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

hiya,
brougth new plug put it in and it started,, bike shop told me not to let it idle so i drove it round and round the block till it got up to temptrue then itinkered about with carb, it will run with the choke leaver pushed up even though it says choke is down u pull it down and it dies, then all of a suddern it stoped dead, not ceased just sparkplug gone again ,bike shop said the reason it plug coulda been covered in oil was cos i kept cranking it over,, this time it was black so its been runnin rich?,cant see while it just keeps killing plugs, theres not a special way of putting them in or anything you have to do to prepare them is there?
cheers
steve

[mchaggis]

If it's running too rich, I'd check your air filter and give it a good clean/ replace it, before starting to fiddle with the carburettor.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Choke lever is by the clutch lever. Pull it towards you for the choke to be on. It has a small sprung ball bearing to hold it open (think it has 2 open positions). However the way you describe the choke (up / down) tends suggest that you do not have the standard choke lever. It should be parallel to the clutch lever, sharing the same pivot, while what you describle sounds more like the NSR / RS / Mito choke lever which rotates around the handlebar.

This operates a cable that goes down to the carb and lifts a pluger in the carb.

Make sure you are operating it the right way, and also that the plunger is operating smoothly.

The plug should be a B10EG. Such cold plugs are prone to fouling if used round town alot, but not as bad as you are experiencing.

Make sure the mixture screw is one turn out.

Clean the plug up with a blow torch!

All the best

Keith
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[steve09]

Ok cl;eaned the air filter took about 3 good washes in a pot of petrol lol i thought it was black foam when i took it out turns out its yellow,
cleaned the spark plugs,
just wondering whjat oil should i put on the filter?
also my nxt door nabours back off hoildays now hes into old vespa and wht not, he suggest pilot jet could be too big???
cheers
steve