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Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else?

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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

I currently have a BMW F800R which I - unfortunately - use mainly for commuting in city traffic. Wanted to hear your thoughts on what a better commuter would be. My wishlist, with a budget of approx £6 to £ 10k if the bike is really worth it:

  • Good for filtering: not too wide, mirrors shouldn't bang too much against those of cars, and a steering angle that should let me change lanes easily when cars are stopped at traffic lights. The width of the BMW is OK but changing lane when stopped is not as easy as on other bikes.

  • Must not overheat my legs. The F800R is an oven: as soon as the temperature hits 25C, my legs risk getting burned and I am forced to ride in a lady-of-the-night fashion (with my legs wide open). I can't imagine what it would be like to commute in Madrid, Rome or Athens in the summer.

  • Able to resist the strongish winds we often get in London, especially near and along the river. My F800r is rock solid when many 125s, unsurprisingly, struggle big time.

  • I don't want to lean forward too much. I am 180 cm (5'11''). My BMW is great for countryside rides, but the continuous stop and go of city traffic puts too much pressure on my wrists. I also find that more upright position lets me 'dominate' traffic better: better view ahead, easier to make lifesaver shoulder checks, etc. Yes, I am aware of the cycle ergo website.

  • Smoother power delivery.

  • Must have ABS.

  • Must be able to install my ugly but functional Givi Maxia 56 topbox.

  • Must be able to fit touring tyres like the Michelin Pilot Road 4 or the Metzler Roadtec 01. So, no Africa Twin with its crappy, non-tubeless tyres.


Methinks the Honda NC750x would be a very good option.The DCT automatic transmission is very convenient in city traffic but I'm willing to consider sticking to an ordinary manual gearbox. The engine is a bit lacking, but it seems that a more powerful engine come at the cost of something else which would make the bike a worse commuter than the NC, plus it's hard to make much use of a more powerful engine in city traffic. Maybe the Kawasaki Versys 650 or the Suzuki V-Strom.
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G
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

S1000RR and a high bar kit.

Though - spending up to £10k on a bike and going for touring tyres?

I'd prefer to have a cheaper bike that depreciates less and grippy rubber.

More upright bikes like the wannabe adventure bikes often have wider bars, which can be restricting in tight traffic.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

G wrote:
S1000RR and a high bar kit.

Though - spending up to £10k on a bike and going for touring tyres?

I'd prefer to have a cheaper bike that depreciates less and grippy rubber.

More upright bikes like the wannabe adventure bikes often have wider bars, which can be restricting in tight traffic.


A 200 hp beast for city commuting? Shocked

I like touring tyres because of the better grip with the cold, wet weather of our winter. If I lived in, say, Los Angeles I'd fit something else.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
[*]Must be able to install my ugly but functional Givi Maxia 56 topbox.

Curious criteria.

Have you considered the F700GS? It solves most of your issues. The position is upright, the bars are above car wing mirrors, and there are mounts on the rear subframe that you can bolt your top box base right onto, no rack required. I suggest the "700" rather than the 800 because it's got solid wheels and the power is delivered lower down than the 800 version.

On the heat issue, I've never found mine toasty, but then I don't get stuck in traffic that often, plus... thermometers go as high as 25?

I can't love mine, but I find it very hard to fault it.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Londoner2015 wrote:
[*]Must be able to install my ugly but functional Givi Maxia 56 topbox.

Curious criteria.

Why? The huge topbox is ugly but extremely convenient. Without it, I'd need to carry a backpack, which is not great if I were to ever fall off the bike, plus makes me sweat big time, as I know from direct experience. BMW's panniers for the F800R are nice but hinder filtering too much.

Rogerborg wrote:

Have you considered the F700GS? It solves most of your issues. The position is upright, the bars are above car wing mirrors, and there are mounts on the rear subframe that you can bolt your top box base right onto, no rack required. I suggest the "700" rather than the 800 because it's got solid wheels and the power is delivered lower down than the 800 version.

On the heat issue, I've never found mine toasty, but then I don't get stuck in traffic that often, plus... thermometers go as high as 25?

I can't love mine, but I find it very hard to fault it.

Yes, I considered the F700GS (not the 800 GS as it's too wide) but the fact that the engine is so similar to mine puts me off as I'd like smoother power delivery. I have never ridden an F700GS, though, so maybe I should try. So you've got an F700GS? How long have you had it? How much do you ride in city traffic?
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 13:43 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:

A 200 hp beast for city commuting? Shocked

I like touring tyres because of the better grip with the cold, wet weather of our winter. If I lived in, say, Los Angeles I'd fit something else.

I have commuted on a tuned superbike (bought a good while ago when they didn't make nearly as much power), but I was suggesting a stock one which will leave you with a rather sultry 'only' 180-190hp at the back wheel!

When I had a commute through city traffic I tried quite a few different bikes. Turned out said superbike did the job the best, so I ended up getting a GSXR1000 as the tuned bike was an ex-race bike that was getting a bit tired.

I've tried plenty of tyres in different conditions.
Often supercorsas (pure race tyre) would offer better grip from cold than touring tyres.
Though, Pilot Race tyres are abysmal for that - however heard similar for other road tyres in that range too.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
Yes, I considered the F700GS (not the 800 GS as it's too wide)

They're substantially the same bike.


Londoner2015 wrote:
but the fact that the engine is so similar to mine puts me off as I'd like smoother power delivery. I have never ridden an F700GS, though, so maybe I should try. So you've got an F700GS? How long have you had it? How much do you ride in city traffic?

I have the F"650"GS, which is the 2008 - 2013 name for the F700GS. They both road oriented versions of the 800GS. A bit lower, solid wheels, RWU forks, the engine is detuned slightly.

I've had mine for 3 years and use it mostly as a commuter. It's not a filtering demon, but it's comfortable, very stable, and can get through most gaps with enough confidence.

I find the engine very tractable and progressive, with no jerking, flat sports or sudden surges. That may be down to the tuning relative to your R, or maybe I got a good 'un, or we have different views on what constitutes smoothness. I think it's slightly over-geared as stock, and going down a tooth on the front sprocket helps a fair bit (not an option with belt drive Wink )

If you're thinking of a V-Strom or a Versys then I'd suggest giving the midi GSes a try, especially if you're considering a dealer trade-in.
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've commuted through (not around) London for 6 years on the following:
Honda PCX125
Ninja 250r
Kwak ER6N
Suz GSR750
Suz GSXR600

And by far the most bestest (not necessarily most comfortable or economic) was the GSXR600. Surprising I know. Never had issues filtering, you just have to plan ahead and this becomes second nature after a few rides. Power, well yes there's plenty. Heat, some, but nothing unbearable. Top box, if you really must. The only downside is the position, which to be honest I got used to in about a week then becomes normal.

The 125 was cheap, comfortable and nippy, but it was never going to be a weekender.
The 250 made the most sense but was no fun. That and I crashed it.
The ER6N was great but not my thing.
The GSR750 was great and it ticked all the boxes for me. Only issue for me was that I didn't feel proud to own it, if that makes sense.
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jakebrownbass
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Versys 650? Maybe even the 1000.

I got one for pretty much the same reasons that you have said in your criteria. Apart from being in London.

Top box for commuting, then I can throw the panniers on it and head away for the weekend.
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Doink
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking about getting rid of the Deauville and getting a BMW F800st, that with the panniers and top box would be a decent commuter.

I do 80 miles a day into the City and back, though the Deauville is an ideal hack and it does the job well i would like a bike I can blast about with on the weekends too.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:11 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
[*]I don't want to lean forward too much.

ST is leanier-forwarder than the R. The GT is very slightly more uppity.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

G wrote:
mental hyperbike



^ this.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 21:47 - 17 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Recommend a bike for city commuting: NC750x or else? Reply with quote

Tut Tut - superbike Wink.

Hyperbike would be a busa etc - a bit too fat and lardy for my liking... and not looking so appealing unless you're going to bolt on a turbo when the litre bikes have come on so much.
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never really thought of it as a commuter but the top end of your budget would get you a new T120 Triumph. Effortless torque, lightest clutch I've ever known, ABS, TC, low seat height, 10k service interval and compared to my FJR1300, it's very maneuverable. Maybe ask Givi if they've got a rack for the Triumph to take the 56l box.

I'm not really a city rider but have went through some horrendous traffic and have done a fair bit of filtering and no problems. Have no idea at 25c as I live in Scotland Wink
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Doink
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PostPosted: 19:17 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see a few guys on supermotos, now they look great fun in the summer!
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G
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wide bars slow you down if there's REALLY tight traffic (there was on my commute in Reading.)
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enduro Numpty wrote:
I never really thought of it as a commuter but the top end of your budget would get you a new T120 Triumph.

Thank you, but not my cup of tea.

Plus, if the punishment for those, like me, who install huge Givi topboxes on naked bikes is flagellation, the punishment for those who install it on a T120 is death Twisted Evil
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Wide bars slow you down if there's REALLY tight traffic (there was on my commute in Reading.)


True. TFL is narrowing down the roads with the explicit aim of making filtering harder, if not impossible.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/david-williams-tfl-needs-to-up-its-game-on-bikers-safety-a3200901.html

Quote:

a recent Local Transport Today report noting that TfL has deliberately narrowed traffic lanes to such an extent that motorcycles cannot pass queueing traffic. TfL defended this, saying London cycling design standards advised against “ambiguous road widths”. Where is the balance?


It's also true that a narrow superbike sneaks into tiny gaps but cannot change lanes easily when cars are stopped because of its steering angle
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Doink
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
G wrote:
Wide bars slow you down if there's REALLY tight traffic (there was on my commute in Reading.)


True. TFL is narrowing down the roads with the explicit aim of making filtering harder, if not impossible.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/motors/david-williams-tfl-needs-to-up-its-game-on-bikers-safety-a3200901.html

Quote:

a recent Local Transport Today report noting that TfL has deliberately narrowed traffic lanes to such an extent that motorcycles cannot pass queueing traffic. TfL defended this, saying London cycling design standards advised against “ambiguous road widths”. Where is the balance?


It's also true that a narrow superbike sneaks into tiny gaps but cannot change lanes easily when cars are stopped because of its steering angle


Lower Thames Street is ridiculous, cycle lanes take up a third of the entire road width while motorbikes don't have enough room to filter.

The cycle lanes are only used for a few hours a day, the roads have been ruined for the sake of this tiny bit of use.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 20:32 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:

It's also true that a narrow superbike sneaks into tiny gaps but cannot change lanes easily when cars are stopped because of its steering angle

Front brake along with 150-200hp gets you turned in the tightest of spots.

However, where possible I'd try and avoid that situation with better forward planning, whatever the bike.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:19 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Front brake along with 150-200hp gets you turned in the tightest of spots.

Show, don't tell.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
G wrote:
Front brake along with 150-200hp gets you turned in the tightest of spots.

Show, don't tell.

I'm lazy, so I'm not going to post one of those youtube videos on motorcycle 'commutes' in Moscow Karma
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 18 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

<Something about gearing>
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Enduro Numpty
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 19 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:

Thank you, but not my cup of tea.

Plus, if the punishment for those, like me, who install huge Givi topboxes on naked bikes is flagellation, the punishment for those who install it on a T120 is death Twisted Evil


Laughing I see where you're coming from. I've got the biggest Givi box for my FJR that's only used when we go on holiday due to its ugliness. Putting it on a retro bike is just a step too far Wink
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DJP
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 19 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, I find myself commuting into London at the moment and my Yamaha MT07 is acquitting itself very well: Light, narrow, economical and with punchy power right where you need it. And with a nice, upright riding position and a big top box it's close to ideal.

I must admit that I do find myself looking (slightly) enviously at the NC750X but only the automatic version. The manual is no different to any other bike, except slower.

Of course, nothing beats a twist 'n go scoot through the traffic but then they're useless for anything else (and you look like a 24 carat gheyer riding one).
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