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wots
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Rosberg Retires Reply with quote
Wins the championship, bails the next day.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10680196/nico-rosberg-retires-from-formula-1-after-winning-world-championship

Fair enough, Mercedes are left high and dry. Would like to see Jenson occupy that seat for a year, he's free and has better pace than many of the hangers on. The stakeholders at Mclaren weren't keen on the 'retention' contract offered to him by the recent departed Ron Dennis anyway.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
As soon as I heard this my first thought was 'Casey Stoner' but apparently this Rosberg guy isn't as much of a whiner as Stoner.
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wots
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a bit like playing an FPS, fight a tough battle, just coming out on top and quitting before anyone can kick you back down.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
As soon as I heard this my first thought was 'Casey Stoner' but apparently this Rosberg guy isn't as much of a whiner as Stoner.


Typical german. Only won title due to other's failures. Did not even win the most races.

F1 is well shot of people like this who can't hack it.

As to whining. I think he did that in the background to the bosses. A real sneak.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:

Typical german. Only won title due to other's failures. Did not even win the most races.

He won can Hamilton kept f'ing up, particularly at race starts. Hamilton had poor reliability in 2014 but came back to win the title, he obviously had more desire then.

I imagine Alonso's running to Germany as we speak Smile Mercedes will promote Pascal Wehrlein I guess, if they're still the team to beat next year Hamilton will walk it.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

He won can Hamilton kept f'ing up, particularly at race starts. Hamilton had poor reliability in 2014 but came back to win the title, he obviously had more desire then.



LH 10 wins to NR 9....
It was reliability that cost Lewis, not his poor starts.

IF NR was such a great driver. In the last race he would not have been moaning on the radio about Lewis going slow. He would have been blasting past him.
NR biggest failing was his lack of overtaking when up against a decent driver.

Sadly son is not a patch on dad when it comes to racing.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
M.C wrote:

He won can Hamilton kept f'ing up, particularly at race starts. Hamilton had poor reliability in 2014 but came back to win the title, he obviously had more desire then.



LH 10 wins to NR 9....
It was reliability that cost Lewis, not his poor starts.

IF NR was such a great driver. In the last race he would not have been moaning on the radio about Lewis going slow. He would have been blasting past him.
NR biggest failing was his lack of overtaking when up against a decent driver.

Sadly son is not a patch on dad when it comes to racing.

You realise Keke only won one race during his championship year? Reliability's part of motor racing, Hamilton admitted his poor starts were costing him: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37379809 (yes that was before Malaysia). Rosberg raised his game this year, Singapore and Suzuka for example were races when he was just better than Hamilton, he never managed that during 2014/15.

I think he deserved to be champ', and I respect him leaving the sport, rather than having to spend all next year with everyone wanting a piece of him.
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kerr
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
He's bailed out before he has to try and prove it wasn't a fluke, which of course it wasn't because he was clearly gifted the championship.
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arry
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

You realise Keke only won one race during his championship year? Reliability's part of motor racing, Hamilton admitted his poor starts were costing him: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/37379809 (yes that was before Malaysia). Rosberg raised his game this year, Singapore and Suzuka for example were races when he was just better than Hamilton, he never managed that during 2014/15.


His dad raced in a different era where the stakes were different, reliability was not sought for and serious injury was fairly commonplace. To compare them is meaningless. The points system was vastly different and rewarded consistency rather than outright winning of races too. Significant differences.

Poor starts did cost Lewis. No doubt. His not turning up for Baku quali and the lack of concentration in Japan absolutely cosy Lewis. Lewis wasn't at his best this season by some way. But that still doesn't take away the fact a win in Malaysia and all other results staying the same would have given him the title at a canter. That's without the 2 or was it 3 qualifying session he couldn't take part in, the relegation to back of grid in Belgium or any other hiccups I may have forgotten.

He raised his game and it coincided with an off form Lewis at certain races and some poor reliability. Perfect storm. Given how Lewis beat the crap out of him over previous seasons, and bossed the pole position trophy this year (something he was accused of not really trying for last year), you can see with the points swing that Lewis achieved at mid point and the fact that without Malaysia having the engine failure he'd have won title with crap loads more poles, 2 more wins and a lot more adversity - perhaps maybe there's driver didn't really win.

That's not to say Lewis couldn't have done more to win it. That's a separate argument.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:41 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:

His dad raced in a different era where the stakes were different, reliability was not sought for and serious injury was fairly commonplace. To compare them is meaningless. The points system was vastly different and rewarded consistency rather than outright winning of races too. Significant differences.

The comparison was because iooi was questioning NR 9 wins compared to LH 10. Kimi nearly won the championship in '03 with a single win, it doesn't matter how many wins you get in a season.

Quote:
Poor starts did cost Lewis. No doubt. His not turning up for Baku quali and the lack of concentration in Japan absolutely cosy Lewis. Lewis wasn't at his best this season by some way. But that still doesn't take away the fact a win in Malaysia and all other results staying the same would have given him the title at a canter. That's without the 2 or was it 3 qualifying session he couldn't take part in, the relegation to back of grid in Belgium or any other hiccups I may have forgotten.

Meh he messed up on a street circuit, and Spa wasn't a major factor, he got to use more power units and still recovered to third.

Quote:
Given how Lewis beat the crap out of him over previous seasons, and bossed the pole position trophy this year (something he was accused of not really trying for last year), you can see with the points swing that Lewis achieved at mid point and the fact that without Malaysia having the engine failure he'd have won title with crap loads more poles, 2 more wins and a lot more adversity - perhaps maybe there's driver didn't really win.

? 2015 Hamilton had 11 poles to Nico's 7, 2016 Hamilton had 12 poles to Nico's 8. Nico was destroyed in races last season, that's what he said he had to work on, that's what he did work on.

I'm not a Rosberg fanboy Smile I just think he deserves the credit for this year. It's like everyone going on about Alonso being the best driver in F1, when he's done nothing for a decade (ok 2012 was a great season). The best driver isn't decided by a mumsnet poll, it's decided on the track, accept it Rolling Eyes
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

The comparison was because iooi was questioning NR 9 wins compared to LH 10. Kimi nearly won the championship in '03 with a single win, it doesn't matter how many wins you get in a season.


It does when there's a massive points differential for the win compared to that person's record. The difference between 1st and 2nd in the current era is hugely different. The point he was trying to make was that coming 2nd now is much more detrimental to coming 2nd back then. Kimi's season was again entirely different - 10 points for a win and 2 to the advantage of 2nd, versus 25 points and over 3x that in 2016.


M.C wrote:

? 2015 Hamilton had 11 poles to Nico's 7, 2016 Hamilton had 12 poles to Nico's 8. Nico was destroyed in races last season, that's what he said he had to work on, that's what he did work on.


Sorry, meant he had criticism for it last year rather than the result of it from last year. The year before NR took the pole position trophy.


M.C wrote:
I'm not a Rosberg fanboy Smile I just think he deserves the credit for this year.


He does - got to be in it to win it. But, with that said, it was a world championship that is always going to be treated as a flash in a pan. Nico has been truly unexceptional throughout his career.


M.C wrote:
It's like everyone going on about Alonso being the best driver in F1, when he's done nothing for a decade (ok 2012 was a great season). The best driver isn't decided by a mumsnet poll, it's decided on the track, accept it Rolling Eyes


The best driver isn't decided by the fall of outright results. It hasn't been throughout history.

There's a difference between the likes of Sebastian Vettel, a 4 time world champion, and Fernando Alonso, a 2 time world champion - it's the fact that Alonso will drive shit without wheels and still make a result of it, whilst Vettel is busy retiring the car.
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arry
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
And because I've just gone back and read what you originally wrote again MC. I think we both agree.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
The point he was trying to make was that coming 2nd now is much more detrimental to coming 2nd back then.

I don't think so:
iooi wrote:
Typical german. Only won title due to other's failures. Did not even win the most races


arry wrote:
He does - got to be in it to win it. But, with that said, it was a world championship that is always going to be treated as a flash in a pan. Nico has been truly unexceptional throughout his career.

Well Damon Hill, Jacques Villeneuve, not highly regarded drivers but still world champs Smile It helps Rosberg was up against Hamilton, but yeah he obviously has no desire to prove himself further, you assume because he feels this was his chance and he took it.

Quote:
There's a difference between the likes of Sebastian Vettel, a 4 time world champion, and Fernando Alonso, a 2 time world champion - it's the fact that Alonso will drive shit without wheels and still make a result of it, whilst Vettel is busy retiring the car.

Well this is why I don't like the 'consensus' of F1 fans. Vettel still had a job to do with those 4 champs (well in 2010 & '12), the first one he won as Alonso got stuck behind Petrov Very Happy It's also worth pointing out Webber never even finished runner-up behind him, even with a dominant car.

I don't recall any great underdog performances from Alonso, I recall some kid winning in a Toro Rosso in the wet (not a Vettel fanboy either BTW). 2012 was a great year but comparisons are difficult with the guy, the one year he (definitely) had an equal teammate at McLaren (the first time round), he nearly brought down the team and finished level on points with a rookie Whistle
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 02 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fair play to him.

It obviously took Rosberg every ounce of resolve, determination, talent and anything else he had in his bag, plus a bit of bad luck on the part of Hamilton, to get him over the line and I think it takes a big man to admit he's not up to the job again.

He's not going to be remembered as one of the greats (his old man was, if nothing else, a balls to the wall driver) but he has got his name on the title, which is enough for some.

Bit of a shame for F1 fans in general, I think next year was set up to look quite good, with the possibility that winning the championship could open the flood gates for NR; now it could be a Hamilton walkover, depending on the car and who gets the second seat.
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jackw72
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it is a bit suspicious to be honest, and he did not deserve the championship to be honest but that is how life is sometimes right!

Next year should be fun with all the changes!
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PostPosted: 07:27 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh well, he's a good driver but a boring driver. He's quick but can't race like Hamilton. I'd like to see Verstappen in the Merc, him and Hamilton battling would be great to watch, they both can overtake and race wheel to wheel.

However, Merc's dominance is most definitely waning, Red Bull seem to be getting stronger and may take the fight to Merc properly next year and with all the rule changes it could be an interesting year.

Failing that, Alonso could go there as a last chance thing. Knowing his luck, he'll go to Merc and McLaren will have the dominant car.
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wots
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rosberg won, fair and square, there are many factors. Luck as well as skill. Did everyone turn round in 2008 and say, "Lewis mate, you are champion, but you didn't deserve it despite your last lap heroics in the changing conditions".

The difference is, Rosberg is consistent, Hamilton is a racer. Alonso is a racer, which is why Alonso really wound up Mclaren in 2007 when he suddenly realised the #2 driver (Hamilton), actually wasn't and was close to winning his first championship that year.

I'd love to see Jenson in the car for a year (as caretaker), the rules changing dramatically, he is consistent (still) and will deliver. They've worked well together before.

I've seen many ranting about the way Hamilton lead that race, he's a racer, he was doing what he could to win WITHIN THE RULES. He disobeyed the team, that's a team issue. Do we want to back to removing team orders again? I've seen some sensible ones applied this season. Particularly with Red Bull, let him ahead, if he doesn't get anywhere then swap back. That's teamwork.

Go back to not that long ago, when Schumacher would deliberately (and dangerously) brake test people on corners to prevent them getting a run on him. He was also a racer, and a good one, but what would he have done in Abu Dhabi?
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does anyone still watch F1?

Vettel seems the most likely shoe in for his drive IMO. Another German in a German car (from Brackley) would you bet against him beating Hamilton the whinge bucket next year?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wafer_Thin_Ham wrote:
Does anyone still watch F1?

Vettel seems the most likely shoe in for his drive IMO. Another German in a German car (from Brackley) would you bet against him beating Hamilton the whinge bucket next year?

Yes, and no I wouldn't bet against him, despite the consensus being that Hamilton's a quicker driver. It might be a good shout, Vettel has had a bad year in terms of his relationship with Ferrari, and I'm sure he has enough money to buy out his contract (remember Button and Williams?) if they wouldn't release him.

I'm not convinced Mercedes would want him despite zee German connection, it would probably go better than having Alonso in the team, but it's not going to be smooth (both want #1 status). I've heard Paul Di Resta mentioned, that could happen, there's the Mercedes link and if it's only for a year it might be the best option. A year of listening to his excuses though Rolling Eyes
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

Yes, and no I wouldn't bet against him, despite the consensus being that Hamilton's a quicker driver. It might be a good shout, Vettel has had a bad year in terms of his relationship with Ferrari, and I'm sure he has enough money to buy out his contract (remember Button and Williams?) if they wouldn't release him.

I'm not convinced Mercedes would want him despite zee German connection, it would probably go better than having Alonso in the team, but it's not going to be smooth (both want #1 status). I've heard Paul Di Resta mentioned, that could happen, there's the Mercedes link and if it's only for a year it might be the best option. A year of listening to his excuses though Rolling Eyes


Razz

Paul DiResta won't stick it up the front. I think by running Rosberg and Hamilton they've shown they want two front running drivers. (DiResta as a test driver maybe).

Could they deal with Alonso's excuses? He's got a great track record of blaming the team, he said McLaren was crap then went to Ferrari then back to McLaren IIRC? He's a great driver for sure, but I feel he's past his best.
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wots
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
I've heard Paul Di Resta mentioned, that could happen, there's the Mercedes link and if it's only for a year it might be the best option. A year of listening to his excuses though Rolling Eyes
Better than listening to him on Sky F1, he is soooo dull.
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I like the guy and respect what he has done. I don't like the racist bigot Hamilton at all, sneaky little shit.

Looking forward to Max doing his thing next year.
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 03 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wonder if the thought process went like this:

I'm 31 now, I got paid just under $16 million last year and became world champion.

I shall retire and buy lots of cocaine, have wild sex with my wife and drink lots of alcohol. All of which Mercedes would not let me do during race season.

I'm going to get fucked up!

Or is that just what I would do?
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 04 Dec 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
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That could be the best shout.

Button - word on the street is his McLaren contract is so watertight, he's struggling to put a one off deal together for Le Mans, which is probably why he's talking about obscure stuff like the WRX.

Alonso - not sure anybody wants a repeat of the last time he was paired with Hamilton.

Vettel - maybe, but there's something about the allure of Ferrari that I think will keep Seb there for a couple more years, until he gets bored with not winning.

Mercedes will want a driver that can challenge Lewis, so they can wrap up the constructor's title, Max could present the best value for money option.
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