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Washed bike, now it wont start...

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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Washed bike, now it wont start... Reply with quote

Ive always thought that using a pressure washer is a big no no, so ive always used a normal hose on the cone setting, today no different.
Usually when I go to start the bike and turn ignition on the following happens:

1. LCD illuminates and shows mileage or 'CHEC' if im in gear or side stand is down and not in neutral
2. Fuel pump goes click click click until primed
3. Engine starts

However since washing the bike the following happens:

1. LCD BACKLIGHT illuminates but the display is blank
2. Neutral light illuminates when in neutral, no other lights illuminate (usually the FI/check engine light is red until the bike is started)
3. Headlight, horn, signals work, starter works (engine turns over)
4. Bike wont start. No priming sound from the fuel pump. No error codes on the display

As I was cleaning the wheels I could hear an intermittent slight hissing sound periodically, near the battery. I figured it was just some kind of engine vent due to the slight changes in temperature.

All ive done so far is remove the battery terminals which made the hissing sound stop, then lost all daylight to diagnose further. So the hissing was electrical in nature. No smoke, no smells of burnt wires/plastic.

Any ideas? I googled the problem for my particular bike and i could only find one other guy who had similar symptoms and turned out to be a popped fuse for the fuel pump. Seems odd that would make the LCD display blank though?

Bike is a suzuki c800 fuel injected model or Suzuki Boulevard C50 in the states.

I feel like an idiot but id assume all bikes could handle a hose on cone setting, thats about the same as a torrential rain storm and you would expect the bike to be able to deal with that.

My thoughts are it cant be the clutch switch or side stand switch because as I said before, if either of those are in effect the LCD shows 'CHEC', until you pull the clutch in and raise the side stand.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 20:53 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can only think of the kill / safety switches and checking the fuses for moister,
did you wash the bike with the engine warm/hot?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check all fuses if you haven't already. Give switches and connectors a blast of air or WD40. Charge battery and try again.
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 21 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
Can only think of the kill / safety switches and checking the fuses for moister,
did you wash the bike with the engine warm/hot?


No. Basically a couple days ago I took the bike off the tender, fired it up, let it get hot, then drained oil and changed oil and filter.
Put it back indoors and back on the tender.
Today rolled it out the garage, cleaned it, wouldnt start. Battery shows 12.5v with the key out the ignition.

Even if the battery was on the way out i'd still expect the LCD display to light up as normal. And the starter sounded healthy and fast. Ive had a naff battery in that bike before and the starter always sounded laboured so I can rule that out.
Yes oil is correct and filled to correct level, no oil leaks.
Ill try what has been suggested so far. Might find it fires up tomorrow. My biggest fear is the ECU has fried.
As I said no smoke or typical 'electrics burnt out' smell but I DID hear a sizzling electrical sound intermittently until I disconnected the batt
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

""As I said no smoke or typical 'electrics burnt out' smell but I DID hear a sizzling electrical sound intermittently until I disconnected the batt""

Strange one this, when switched off you still have a live feed to the ign switch and may be to the clock and alarm system if fitted.

If no joy after drying the bike fully try disconnecting the reg/rec to see / hear if the sizzling noise goes.
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 07:26 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still say battery. It's a big brute to turn over, I'd be wanting top quality battery at max power.

Do you happen to have a car battery and jump leads to hand?

My GSXR has the CHEC light until it's good to be started, checks for killswitch, side stand etc
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doggone
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PostPosted: 08:48 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be damp in a block connector somewhere, suspect anything which has been modified or repaired first.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 10:37 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

EazyDuz wrote:
Battery shows 12.5v with the key out the ignition.


So does my now 6 year old dead battery. What does it say when you turn the ignition on and when you press the start button.

What battery is it... I'm still thinking battery.
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
EazyDuz wrote:
Battery shows 12.5v with the key out the ignition.


So does my now 6 year old dead battery. What does it say when you turn the ignition on and when you press the start button.

What battery is it... I'm still thinking battery.


Things ive done so far:

1. Tried jump start with car battery
2. Unplugged every plug I could find and cleaned/greased
3. Checked all fuses
4. Cleaned main ground wire
5. Charged battery

No dice. It cranks over fast and the lights dont even dim, its not the battery.
At one point the LCD came to life and flashed an F1 code. Ive since not been able to get it to do it again, it was a fluke

Out of my depth here I have no idea where else to look
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Meatybeaty
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried the kill switch, not to run and see if you get a "chec" in the panel, or even cleaning kill switch, or have you tried putting it in dealer mode
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meatybeaty wrote:
Have you tried the kill switch, not to run and see if you get a "chec" in the panel, or even cleaning kill switch, or have you tried putting it in dealer mode


I tried dealer mode and it wont work. The display is dead i.e totally blank apart from the one random time where it came to life and flashed an F1 code. Turned it off, turned it on again and the display is blank again.
Im stumped.
And yes blew and WD40'd the kill switch and nothing. The kill switch is working because I hear a click when I press it.

I have noticed condensation on the centre dial. But could that cause all these problems?
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Meatybeaty
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes condensation can especially on pcb's , Have you tried WD40 Specialist Electrical Connector cleaner, its always better than just WD40
in the back of the clocks
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found out the clock is a totally sealed unit. No way of opening other than cracking it open. Put hair dryer on it for a bit but no joy.
Changed all fuses also. Even opened the ECU itself and it was fukin bone dry inside.
Im really at a loss. I just dont understand why the LCD is blank and randomly flashed a code only once. Doesnt make sense
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Meatybeaty
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry matey ,it looks like your back to finding where that hissing sound came from, strange it didn't do it when you put the battery back on though
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meatybeaty wrote:
Sorry matey ,it looks like your back to finding where that hissing sound came from, strange it didn't do it when you put the battery back on though


Im wondering if its the battery itself that made the sound. Its a sealed unit.
Leaving it on charge overnight and will see what happens. Running out of ideas though now
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Meatybeaty
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried measuring voltage as you try to start
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meatybeaty wrote:
Have you tried measuring voltage as you try to start

No not yet. Im no expert but it seems odd that the lights shine bright and it cranks at a fast pace yet somehow it doesnt have the power to make the LCD work and power the fuel pump.
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P.
Red Rocket



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PostPosted: 20:17 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amps and volts are different really, you are trying to start bad man V twin.

Assuming you connected car battery exactly the same with your battery completely out of the equation. You really need to get that multimeter out and test it.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

No sound from the fuel pump and a "hissing" sound from somewhere. If the hiss is a quiet buzzing could it be a faulty relay?
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
No sound from the fuel pump and a "hissing" sound from somewhere. If the hiss is a quiet buzzing could it be a faulty relay?


That sound has since gone away. I only heard it while cleaning the bike, it wasnt burning water because I didnt even start the engine.
To be honest the sound was in the general direction of:

The battery
A load of wire couplers
the ECM/ECU....around £600 to replace.

Bike has been 100% reliable up to now, and ive washed it with the same technique a lot of times.
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 22 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone has nothing to do tonight and wouldn't mind helping me out I found the wiring diagram here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4yjefpc2w928xm/c50_repair_manual.pdf?dl=0

Skip to page 633. I have no idea what I'm looking at, all I can kind of decipher is that the only thing linking a lack of LCD display, no oil/temp idiot lights illuminating and no fuel pump power is the ECM.
I still dont know why it came to life just once though and hasnt done since. The only other thing I found out is if I have the ignition on and plug in the gauge cluster, all lights flash for a split second, so I know the gauge cluster itself is not at fault.
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Meatybeaty
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PostPosted: 06:12 - 23 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you said you checked the connector to the cluster ,but did you check each wire going int and out of it, dont know the year of your bike but if it lit up before it looks like a dodgy wire, maybe even broken, try wiggling the connector as the ignition is on, just to test that.Has your bike had a recall, only saw this while looking
https://www.arfc.org/complaints/2004/suzuki/vl800/electrical_system/problem.aspx
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 23 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more thoughts, all a bit random. See what you think.

Assuming the battery terminals are clean, it's not the battery because you've tried jump-starting from a car battery (-which was hopefully known to be good). Ignoring some other signs, does this non-starter have a good level of fuel in it?

Hissing could have been the battery venting, perhaps?

My bike used to make noises as water drained from the fuel cap surround. Your noise stopped when you disconnected the battery, but maybe you just disturbed a water channel while working in the vicinity.

It seems very unlikely that an ECU could be damaged so easily, and I'd expect a fuse to blow first.

The LCD backlight is probably on the lighting circuit, not so the readout. The starter is possibly on a separate circuit from the ignition, not so the fuel pump. It looks like anything on the ignition circuit is out of action, everything else is working. I think some bike's kill switches leave the lights on, some others kill the lot. Give the kill switch a blast of contact cleaner, give it some flicks and then blow it out. You might have to open it up to clean it properly but it's fiddly. Give the key switch a few clicks to see if the dash readout is intermittent due to a worn barrel.
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 23 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

EazyDuz wrote:
If someone has nothing to do tonight and wouldn't mind helping me out I found the wiring diagram....


Wiring diagram only: https://imgur.com/a/qrr76dp

You really need to get in there with a voltmeter. The main fuse
is on the starter relay unit. Assuming R=red and O=orange,

Red goes from the main fuse to the ignition switch
and to fuse 3 (Fuel) in the fusebox. This feeds the
fuel pump relay and the instrument cluster,
so it could be your prime suspect.

The orange wire from the ignition switch feeds the
starter button (RH switches) and fuses 4,5,6
in the fusebox.

4 Ignition
5 Signal
6 Power source

As it is easy to check voltages on plug-in fuses,
I would start here....

Have fun.
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EazyDuz
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 23 Feb 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

FUCKING YES! Fucking found the problem.
Had the tank off, removed and cleaned every coupler, inspected the rectifier.
Then I looked behind the fuse box, noticed one red wire was snapped. Figured they do that at the factory because it looked like it was feeding into one of the two 'spare fuse' holders in the box, so obviously doesnt connect to anything.
Thats when I sliced and peeled back the main harness just to be sure, funnily enough a broken red wire is inside.
I was so, so close to giving up, but i figured I may as well bridge the wire with some speaker wire and see if the entire bike ignites itself.
Sure enough, flicked it on, WEEEEEEEEEEE pump kicks in, dash showing that lovely mileage display.
So fucking pleased Ive spent 2 1/2 days troubleshooting the stupid thing and Im really proud of myself for finding it since im useless with electrics.
Thanks everyone for your help, here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/D2LBycJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QwKRwhh.jpg

Still no idea why it had snapped, the others look fine. Sounds silly but could a mouse or rat have done it? I packed it away in the garage in November, pulled it out, fired it up to change the oil the other day, put it back, then it wouldnt start.
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