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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 20:45 - 04 Oct 2019 Post subject: Dealing with the DT |
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Here we go again! Hopefully more success this time round
This is what I got:
https://i.imgur.com/6VvT5qK.jpg?1
(Apologies for the single photo but it was getting late. I'll do a proper survey tomorrow.)
It's a Yamaha DT 175 (1G1 model, i.e. "last of the twin-shocks") if you can't guess from the dodgy camera angle.
Original bike apart from the following: tank is NOS from a smaller DT (or 50 or 80 maybe) and isn't a perfect fit, rear shocks are just random things that fit, carb is from a 250, top-end tinkered with - porting at least.
Apart from what's pictured there's also a seat, the original tank (plenty of rust holes) headlamp, spare indicators, a set of (rotted) cables - speedo, tacho, clutch - various spare nuts, bolts and gasket sets and a bottom end from most likely an American import as it has electric start.
A cursory glance of the forks shows they're mint under the gaiters, the brakes still work (a bit) tyres look surprisingly good for their age and the tubes still hold air. Considering I just pushed it back to my house the wheels and steering felt fine.
To make it run it would need new spokes for the wheels, probably a new chain and sprocket set and a new cable set. Probably loads more but that's the obvious stuff.
More updates tomorrow, weather permitting. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:02 - 05 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Right! Proper photos this time. Bear in mind this has been sat in the back of a shed for 30 years
https://i.imgur.com/T5hHLzT.jpg?1
In the daylight
https://i.imgur.com/wTaD2bV.jpg?1
Front offside, forks look in good condition. They go up and down so that's a start.
https://i.imgur.com/1fBoVKZ.jpg?1
Front hub, offside closeup
https://i.imgur.com/jFonsQq.jpg?1
Front nearside, TBH I was surprised the rims looked so good. A bit of effort with some 000 and some autosol should look fine. The spokes, not so much.
https://i.imgur.com/xrPkNTa.jpg?1
Front hub, nearside closeup. There's a general theme on this bike of pins missing from castle nuts.
https://i.imgur.com/v9pTWRr.jpg?1
Something not quite right here. The tyre's slightly closer to one fork Either there's an axle spacer missing or the forks are slightly twisted... or maybe it's meant to be like that! Comments appreciated
https://i.imgur.com/z6AA5k8.jpg?1
Wires hanging out, I think it's like the law to have this photo
https://i.imgur.com/k2vsw3H.jpg?1
Back end. The scratch shows the original paint colour was white. I should have taken a piccy of the brake light: mint condition, lens not even discoloured.
https://i.imgur.com/n3YInnu.jpg?1
Battery missing, air intake, various electrics. Tray needs to come out, sanding down and repainting. Looks like the main fuse is missing, no biggie. Worth pointing out that the frame was at some point restored and then plasti-dipped.
https://i.imgur.com/gtpK7ds.jpg?1
Left hand switches, hi-lo top is always the first to go
https://i.imgur.com/paetZas.jpg?1
Right hand switches. Need some mirrors but the levers look pretty good.
https://i.imgur.com/FS83wmt.jpg?1
Clocks, the miles DO NOT include its life as an off-road bike. Ignition barrel missing, it's one of the two-connector sorts.
https://i.imgur.com/LgmyEHi.jpg?1
Engine offside. Painting the top-end black didn't last! And why paint the carb? Gonna be a pain to strip that back Exhaust expansion chamber looks good - all just surface rust - solid. The oil pump is a bit gummed up and doesn't return after releasing the throttle unless you give it a nudge. I gave it a few experimental kicks and it turns over smoothly; feels to have at least some compression.
https://i.imgur.com/g7iRtrt.jpg?1
Engine nearside. Spark plug connector's seen better days! There's the little grill piece missing from the exhaust. As mentioned, carb is supposedly from a 250.
https://i.imgur.com/AbpNiJN.jpg?1
Rear hub offside. Again, rim good, spokes not so good Hagon shocks on there. Dunno if that means they're good?
https://i.imgur.com/GYyOA6c.jpg?1
2-stroke oil reservoir, looks like new!
https://i.imgur.com/zwCV0nK.jpg
Rear hub, sprocket and chain, actually looking pretty good for the age.
https://i.imgur.com/ac5UVeP.jpg?2
Front mudguard and original tank. Big ding but that might push out. However...
https://i.imgur.com/ZDN85Gh.jpg?1
Underside of the original tank. I've seen people restore tanks in a worse state
https://i.imgur.com/sKNmXOJ.jpg?1
Seat seems to have lots of little holes. Do moths like chewing on old leather?
https://i.imgur.com/g4ktUcB.jpg?1
Seat underside. It looks bad but again I've seen worse restored to new.
https://i.imgur.com/OseoKe9.jpg?1
Random bag of parts! Bet you've been going "but the such-and-such is missing!" all this time The silencer is just rattling with rust and sh*te, probably be fine for testing. However, I think (yes, there's the hanger in the pile) that the mounting bolts have just been cut off so I think my chances of using it long term are zero
https://i.imgur.com/zShceKz.jpg?1
The mysterious spare bottom end! According to the serial number it's from a late '70s DT 125 E. Apparently the magneto side is enlarged so it can run in reverse as a motor - live and learn! Now, I don't know whether it's worth the effort to stick a barrel on it and swap the engines just to get push button start... a fair bit of rewiring too as AFAIK it's a 12V system.
At this point I'm going to make two lists: one to get it running and back on the road and the other to restore it to some extent.
Should I try and get it started ASAP? Considering it'll be sitting about for a bit while I source parts...
Regarding the wheels, shall I have a go at re-spoking them or is that best left to a specialist? ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 18:45 - 05 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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A very good and interesting basis for a project. I think you've done well this time and there's alot of intact or restorable original parts on that bike.
The forks look good, so I'd be popping them out for an inspection, and oil change if under the fork boots there's no pitting or leaking seals.
The tank that's on it, well how sound is it? Is there a way of getting the mounts to fit the frame lugs securely. If so I'd clean up and use that tank, probably keep it as is if there's no bare metal or rust to deal with.
Personally I'd say you need to concentrate on getting a sound chassis together first, so all bearings and seals needs checking and re-greasing if nothing needs replacing. You really want the chassis/suspension and brakes to be spot on and then the electrics and wiring. Getting a tidy neat and reliable wiring loom and electrics on an old trail bike can be quite a challenge, and it might be worth starting the electrics again from scratch.
Get the above right and then it's just the engine/transmission and cosmetics to sort out. Replacing rusted tin wear and making everything tidy and protected from corrosion is where you want to be, instead of looking at paint, powder coating and plating IMO.
Oh and ignore the engine, leave it well alone for now as you need to expect to strip it and check it over, replacing all the oil seals and gaskets. Unless the crankcase is full of oil, then a crank re-build and bearings and seals are on the cards. No point in making it look like a good clean tidy bike unless you
get a tip top motor and gearbox sorted out too.
Good luck and keep an eye out for good used spares and even a new loom and electrical system. |
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:14 - 05 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Agree with the above. In the end you'll be doing an engine build. They seem like absolute hell to do but given how you understand methodology you'll enjoy doing it. An easier type of engine so far less inside.
I'm actually jealous of you bagging this one!
I've spotted rim locks. You'll have fun with those. I hate the things.
Finally, could be the lens distorting images but to me it looks like the forks are knocked back. As if it's hit something and they're at a steep angle.
Could be the camera because I can't see obvious frame distortion and the forks appear straight. Just something to be aware of and to check for.
Aside from that, you have a bloody good project there ____________________ CCM 404 DS |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:10 - 05 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Sister Sledge wrote: | Finally, could be the lens distorting images but to me it looks like the forks are knocked back. As if it's hit something and they're at a steep angle.
Could be the camera because I can't see obvious frame distortion and the forks appear straight. Just something to be aware of and to check for.
Aside from that, you have a bloody good project there |
Yes, I had the camera on super wide angle for the first few shots
Just looking into where I can get spokes sets. Plenty of NOS but from the US
Alternatively I've found:
https://www.devonrimcompany.com/
https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/
Prices around £50 to £90 a set, made to measure. I might manage to find some usable complete wheels off eBay I suppose but at some point one set of wheels or another is getting rebuilt. And when the wheels come off I'll take a look at the forks, bearings, etc.
The little tank on the bike is relatively good externally. There's a bit of petrol still in there so the whole thing's still damp with fuel. It is rusty when I peek inside but I've seen worse. A rinse out and an inline filter would do for now. If I want to go to the trouble of treating and lining the inside I may as well repair the original.
Regarding the electrics thankfully that's one thing I'm good at Creating a whole wiring loom from scratch is not a problem and really, there's not much happening on such a simple bike. I take the hint over doing a neat job though!
Currently studying some of the parts diagrams to see what I'm missing. If it's shit weather tomorrow I think I'll strip and clean the carb for a bit of fun and see if it needs a rebuild kit. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:14 - 06 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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What shitty weather! Sunshine and pissing down at the same time Luckily I have a spare bike cover to throw over it.
So today I just took a look at the stick oil pump and the carb...
https://i.imgur.com/qNxxDUJ.jpg?1
I was going to take out the whole pump but the oil feed line to the carb looks to be a permanent fitting and I'd never get the little pipe routed back without cracking the case open so I just took the guts out instead.
https://i.imgur.com/56txM0u.jpg?1
Cleaned all these components and re-greased all the external rotatey bits and now it springs back fine
https://i.imgur.com/VoZU8yw.jpg?1
Not going to get the carb out without removing the airbox so let's take a look...
https://i.imgur.com/UbYn2mi.jpg?1
Looks okay? No, it was only oil holding all that together and the foam just disintegrated!
https://i.imgur.com/nwrMjnS.jpg?1
I could buy a new air filter but I still have some foam left over from doing the Superlight air filter. (It's about £16 for a chunk of pre-cut foam with the official Keeway part number or fuck all to buy a big sheet of foam meant for chainsaws and the like.) Probably just wrap this cage and glue/staple a seam.
The rubbers are generally in good condition; there's some cracking at the top of the snorkel, nothing worth worrying about. Do the reeds look okay?
https://i.imgur.com/RTAizmv.jpg?1
Here's the carb with the unnecessary black paint. A 28mm Mikuni of some sort, early VM28 maybe? Can't seem to find a schematic that quite matches this one.
https://i.imgur.com/NGZ094M.jpg?1
Dunno about the mashed up bits just below the choke! I assume nothing important if this is the carb it was originally running with. Might be what was fitted to the IT 250.
I popped the float bowl and it's about the cleanest carb I've seen bar a brand new one so fuck it, I'll leave stripping it down for now. Certainly don't think it needs a rebuild kit from my brief visual assessment
Last bit of light I put back the reed, inlet rubber, carb and oil pump. (Also connected the pump to the carb with a stray piece of tubing that happened to be floating about the engine... unconnected to anything. Surprised I didn't loose it when I pushed the bike home!)
I was going to check the plug but my pizza will be here soon ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:36 - 06 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Air filters, air filters... feck! How much?!
Sod that...
https://i.imgur.com/w0r4SeA.jpg?1
A drop of oil and that'll do ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
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Posted: 20:25 - 06 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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That looks like a nice, relatively easy, project at least it's, mostly in one piece.
For what it's worth here a couple of my thoughts.
The spokes, unless there are broken or bent ones, I'd de-rust them before replacing them, when I did my XL, the spokes looked just like that, I had to replace one, the rest got cleaned polished and painted. It's had multiple MOTs since, never been a problem.
The carb, I bought the repair kit, fitted it, but when the bike was finished it never ran right, a new, cheap Chinese copy sorted the problem immediately. IMO, the original was simply worn out!
That tail pipe looks exactly the same as the one on my YAM GT50 resto.
You can still buy an new aftermarket one for not a lot. I'm sure it's the same tail pipe used on a TY175. You should probably make friends with the Sammy Miller emporium!
Good luck! ____________________ "Everybody needs money, that's why they call it money!" |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 23:02 - 06 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Suntan Sid wrote: | The spokes, unless there are broken or bent ones, I'd de-rust them before replacing them, when I did my XL, the spokes looked just like that, I had to replace one, the rest got cleaned polished and painted. It's had multiple MOTs since, never been a problem. |
I hit 'em with a spanner... ding, ding, donk, donk, ding, ding... etc. about a quarter of them don't have a nice tone and that's just the front wheel! The back spokes are much worse and one of them's snapped Even so I'll take your advice and see if there's any metal left after the rust is removed. Front maybe, back... not so much
Quote: | That tail pipe looks exactly the same as the one on my YAM GT50 resto.
You can still buy an new aftermarket one for not a lot. I'm sure it's the same tail pipe used on a TY175. |
Yes, the mounting bolts are almost completely sheared off I'm wondering whether I can trim off the remnants, flatten off and tap some threads or not bother and get a new one. Thing is despite all the rust falling out of it it feels really solid, no pinholes or thin areas at all. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 13:04 - 07 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Spokes: I think there's a local wheel builder somewhere round my way but an odd spoke is easy enough to get hold of. Let's see how they buff up
Automix oil system: from the manual about the only thing that's changeable is the shim controlling the base flow. After that oil either spits out or it doesn't! But I take your point, maybe I can see how much it spits into a jug in a minute and compare to the yamaha specs.
AFAIK those are Boyesen dual-stage power reeds. They're sorta current but I think everyone else has switched over to carbon fibre now. I've added new petals/membranes to the list, thanx
Yes, the original carb should be a 24mm and this is a 28mm Seems a bit of a jump seeing as it's the original airbox and exhaust. "Oh yeah, it's been ported!" okay... and some funky reeds. Don't think that requires a carb 2 sizes up However, "The Plan" is to at least get it running...
Everyone has talked at me saying "oh yeah, great bike! you'll have a lot of fun with that!!!" IRL, not just on here. But one man's fun is another man's frustration. I have had quite a bit of fun tinkering with little 2-strokes in the past and I do prefer smaller bikes so all the portents are good but if I don't bond with the machine-soul of the bike there's not much in continuing...
Errr, right Anyhoo, let's see how it feels with this carb and use that as a starting reference before buying stuff blindly
Finally, regarding a complete strip down I refer you back to "The Plan" A quick spin round the block should be sufficient but yes, after that it's down to PoundLand to buy some tubs to put all the bits in - my wife's collection of Chinese Takeway containers has taken a big hit recently
I have a bit more background history on it though. There's the old tax disk in the random pile so it was on the road from '76 to (at least) '83. After that the automix oil system and ancillary electrics were stripped and it spent some years as an off-road bike running on premix before my mate got hold of it.
His ambition was to restore it back to a road bike and do some green laning. It definitely got totally stripped as the he did the plasti dip frame. So far it looks like he did a fair job on restoring it apart from an aversion to retaining pins and pipe clips. That and painting everything black (I suppose it works given the current tank.) AFAIK it never left his shed in 30 years; it may have been started up from time to time but that's about it. I'm sure I'll catch up with him this week and get some more info.
Good news though! Someone reminded me of the Kempton Autojumble and there's one at the end of this month - excellent timing Another reason to assess the bike running: to decide whether I need to keep the DT125E bottom end in reserve otherwise I might shift it on at the Autojumble. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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Posted: 22:27 - 07 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Forced wrote: | I would junk the autolube. Heavy and complex and lots of drag. They pick up much faster without it. |
Okay, so I lose the tank I get that but then I also lose the battery tray I can bolt on some sort of frame for the battery instead but then I also have to come up with a panel to cover the gap.
However, and this is where I play the "I iz noob" card, does the auto oiler not help in keeping the sump oiled when idling, e.g. coasting down a hill with no throttle, or was somebody feeding me a "glass hammer" and "skirting board ladder" line? ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
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Posted: 19:39 - 09 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Have a look at how the Italians ride their two strokes.
I don't run an oil pump on my KMX 125, but it was missing and I prefer the lighter throttle action without the oil pump.
Regards seizing, I wouldn't shut the throttle completely at high rpm and start banging down through the gears, as high recs andoad are what seize two stroke bikes when there's no oil getting into the motor.
Ridden more normally and during town use with constant braking and acceleration then you'll never have a problem with pre-mix lubrication IMO.
Theres not a two stroke engine out there that doesn't love constant throttle open/ throttle closed style use.
Long periods of constant throttle cruising is often where you see alot of seizures taking place, as people don't always get the midrange fueling right. |
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Posted: 11:50 - 10 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Just a quick update. I've ordered the following:
Battery
Fuse holder
Cable lube tool (one of those things you clamp on the end)
Ignition switch
Basically the bare minimum to allow it to start and ride around (no big jumps 'cos of those spokes!) TBH it's more just to warm the engine up to make it easier to drain the gearbox oil... assuming there's any in there to start with! Should have all the bits by the weekend
And then the break down begins
<addendum> Ignition switch has just turned up ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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redeem ouzzer World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:18 - 10 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | Just a quick update. I've ordered the following:
Battery
Fuse holder
Cable lube tool (one of those things you clamp on the end)
Ignition switch
Basically the bare minimum to allow it to start and ride around (no big jumps 'cos of those spokes!) TBH it's more just to warm the engine up to make it easier to drain the gearbox oil... assuming there's any in there to start with! Should have all the bits by the weekend
And then the break down begins
<addendum> Ignition switch has just turned up |
I wouldn't bother getting it running just to change the gearbox oil. I never do oil changes on my strokers when the engine is warm, just leave it to drain for an hour and tip it over each side a few times to get the oil out of the nooks and crannies to run towards the drain plug.
When you refill it use ATF rather than flashy gear oil. ____________________ Be a REAL MAN! |
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Posted: 17:00 - 10 Oct 2019 Post subject: |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 4 years, 238 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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