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Dealing with the DT

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Dealing with the DT Reply with quote

Here we go again! Hopefully more success this time round Smile

This is what I got:

https://i.imgur.com/6VvT5qK.jpg?1

(Apologies for the single photo but it was getting late. I'll do a proper survey tomorrow.)

It's a Yamaha DT 175 (1G1 model, i.e. "last of the twin-shocks") if you can't guess from the dodgy camera angle.

Original bike apart from the following: tank is NOS from a smaller DT (or 50 or 80 maybe) and isn't a perfect fit, rear shocks are just random things that fit, carb is from a 250, top-end tinkered with - porting at least.

Apart from what's pictured there's also a seat, the original tank (plenty of rust holes) headlamp, spare indicators, a set of (rotted) cables - speedo, tacho, clutch - various spare nuts, bolts and gasket sets and a bottom end from most likely an American import as it has electric start.

A cursory glance of the forks shows they're mint under the gaiters, the brakes still work (a bit) tyres look surprisingly good for their age and the tubes still hold air. Considering I just pushed it back to my house the wheels and steering felt fine.

To make it run it would need new spokes for the wheels, probably a new chain and sprocket set and a new cable set. Probably loads more but that's the obvious stuff.

More updates tomorrow, weather permitting.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 04 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's got some potential!

I'd say try to keep it looking fairly original appearance wise, the OEM+ look etc. As that bike should have some value in it already and twin shock DT's are getting rarer and more desirable now! Definitely a good thing to be stuck into over the winter months and a cool little bike at the end of it!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 05 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right! Proper photos this time. Bear in mind this has been sat in the back of a shed for 30 years Shocked

https://i.imgur.com/T5hHLzT.jpg?1
In the daylight Smile

https://i.imgur.com/wTaD2bV.jpg?1
Front offside, forks look in good condition. They go up and down so that's a start.

https://i.imgur.com/1fBoVKZ.jpg?1
Front hub, offside closeup

https://i.imgur.com/jFonsQq.jpg?1
Front nearside, TBH I was surprised the rims looked so good. A bit of effort with some 000 and some autosol should look fine. The spokes, not so much.

https://i.imgur.com/xrPkNTa.jpg?1
Front hub, nearside closeup. There's a general theme on this bike of pins missing from castle nuts.

https://i.imgur.com/v9pTWRr.jpg?1
Something not quite right here. The tyre's slightly closer to one fork Thinking Either there's an axle spacer missing or the forks are slightly twisted... or maybe it's meant to be like that! Comments appreciated Smile

https://i.imgur.com/z6AA5k8.jpg?1
Wires hanging out, I think it's like the law to have this photo Smile

https://i.imgur.com/k2vsw3H.jpg?1
Back end. The scratch shows the original paint colour was white. I should have taken a piccy of the brake light: mint condition, lens not even discoloured.

https://i.imgur.com/n3YInnu.jpg?1
Battery missing, air intake, various electrics. Tray needs to come out, sanding down and repainting. Looks like the main fuse is missing, no biggie. Worth pointing out that the frame was at some point restored and then plasti-dipped.

https://i.imgur.com/gtpK7ds.jpg?1
Left hand switches, hi-lo top is always the first to go Wink

https://i.imgur.com/paetZas.jpg?1
Right hand switches. Need some mirrors but the levers look pretty good.

https://i.imgur.com/FS83wmt.jpg?1
Clocks, the miles DO NOT include its life as an off-road bike. Ignition barrel missing, it's one of the two-connector sorts.

https://i.imgur.com/LgmyEHi.jpg?1
Engine offside. Painting the top-end black didn't last! And why paint the carb? Gonna be a pain to strip that back Sad Exhaust expansion chamber looks good - all just surface rust - solid. The oil pump is a bit gummed up and doesn't return after releasing the throttle unless you give it a nudge. I gave it a few experimental kicks and it turns over smoothly; feels to have at least some compression.

https://i.imgur.com/g7iRtrt.jpg?1
Engine nearside. Spark plug connector's seen better days! There's the little grill piece missing from the exhaust. As mentioned, carb is supposedly from a 250.

https://i.imgur.com/AbpNiJN.jpg?1
Rear hub offside. Again, rim good, spokes not so good Smile Hagon shocks on there. Dunno if that means they're good?

https://i.imgur.com/GYyOA6c.jpg?1
2-stroke oil reservoir, looks like new!

https://i.imgur.com/zwCV0nK.jpg
Rear hub, sprocket and chain, actually looking pretty good for the age.

https://i.imgur.com/ac5UVeP.jpg?2
Front mudguard and original tank. Big ding but that might push out. However...

https://i.imgur.com/ZDN85Gh.jpg?1
Underside of the original tank. I've seen people restore tanks in a worse state Shocked

https://i.imgur.com/sKNmXOJ.jpg?1
Seat seems to have lots of little holes. Do moths like chewing on old leather?

https://i.imgur.com/g4ktUcB.jpg?1
Seat underside. It looks bad but again I've seen worse restored to new.

https://i.imgur.com/OseoKe9.jpg?1
Random bag of parts! Bet you've been going "but the such-and-such is missing!" all this time Very Happy The silencer is just rattling with rust and sh*te, probably be fine for testing. However, I think (yes, there's the hanger in the pile) that the mounting bolts have just been cut off so I think my chances of using it long term are zero Sad

https://i.imgur.com/zShceKz.jpg?1
The mysterious spare bottom end! According to the serial number it's from a late '70s DT 125 E. Apparently the magneto side is enlarged so it can run in reverse as a motor - live and learn! Now, I don't know whether it's worth the effort to stick a barrel on it and swap the engines just to get push button start... a fair bit of rewiring too as AFAIK it's a 12V system.

At this point I'm going to make two lists: one to get it running and back on the road and the other to restore it to some extent.

Should I try and get it started ASAP? Considering it'll be sitting about for a bit while I source parts...

Regarding the wheels, shall I have a go at re-spoking them or is that best left to a specialist?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 05 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very good and interesting basis for a project. I think you've done well this time and there's alot of intact or restorable original parts on that bike.

The forks look good, so I'd be popping them out for an inspection, and oil change if under the fork boots there's no pitting or leaking seals.

The tank that's on it, well how sound is it? Is there a way of getting the mounts to fit the frame lugs securely. If so I'd clean up and use that tank, probably keep it as is if there's no bare metal or rust to deal with.


Personally I'd say you need to concentrate on getting a sound chassis together first, so all bearings and seals needs checking and re-greasing if nothing needs replacing. You really want the chassis/suspension and brakes to be spot on and then the electrics and wiring. Getting a tidy neat and reliable wiring loom and electrics on an old trail bike can be quite a challenge, and it might be worth starting the electrics again from scratch.


Get the above right and then it's just the engine/transmission and cosmetics to sort out. Replacing rusted tin wear and making everything tidy and protected from corrosion is where you want to be, instead of looking at paint, powder coating and plating IMO.

Oh and ignore the engine, leave it well alone for now as you need to expect to strip it and check it over, replacing all the oil seals and gaskets. Unless the crankcase is full of oil, then a crank re-build and bearings and seals are on the cards. No point in making it look like a good clean tidy bike unless you
get a tip top motor and gearbox sorted out too.

Good luck and keep an eye out for good used spares and even a new loom and electrical system.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 05 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with the above. In the end you'll be doing an engine build. They seem like absolute hell to do but given how you understand methodology you'll enjoy doing it. An easier type of engine so far less inside.

I'm actually jealous of you bagging this one!

I've spotted rim locks. You'll have fun with those. I hate the things.

Finally, could be the lens distorting images but to me it looks like the forks are knocked back. As if it's hit something and they're at a steep angle.
Could be the camera because I can't see obvious frame distortion and the forks appear straight. Just something to be aware of and to check for.
Aside from that, you have a bloody good project there Smile
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 05 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Finally, could be the lens distorting images but to me it looks like the forks are knocked back. As if it's hit something and they're at a steep angle.
Could be the camera because I can't see obvious frame distortion and the forks appear straight. Just something to be aware of and to check for.
Aside from that, you have a bloody good project there Smile


Yes, I had the camera on super wide angle for the first few shots Smile

Just looking into where I can get spokes sets. Plenty of NOS but from the US Sad

Alternatively I've found:

https://www.devonrimcompany.com/
https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/

Prices around £50 to £90 a set, made to measure. I might manage to find some usable complete wheels off eBay I suppose but at some point one set of wheels or another is getting rebuilt. And when the wheels come off I'll take a look at the forks, bearings, etc.

The little tank on the bike is relatively good externally. There's a bit of petrol still in there so the whole thing's still damp with fuel. It is rusty when I peek inside but I've seen worse. A rinse out and an inline filter would do for now. If I want to go to the trouble of treating and lining the inside I may as well repair the original.

Regarding the electrics thankfully that's one thing I'm good at Smile Creating a whole wiring loom from scratch is not a problem and really, there's not much happening on such a simple bike. I take the hint over doing a neat job though!

Currently studying some of the parts diagrams to see what I'm missing. If it's shit weather tomorrow I think I'll strip and clean the carb for a bit of fun and see if it needs a rebuild kit.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 06 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

What shitty weather! Sunshine and pissing down at the same time Sad Luckily I have a spare bike cover to throw over it.

So today I just took a look at the stick oil pump and the carb...

https://i.imgur.com/qNxxDUJ.jpg?1
I was going to take out the whole pump but the oil feed line to the carb looks to be a permanent fitting and I'd never get the little pipe routed back without cracking the case open so I just took the guts out instead.

https://i.imgur.com/56txM0u.jpg?1
Cleaned all these components and re-greased all the external rotatey bits and now it springs back fine Smile

https://i.imgur.com/VoZU8yw.jpg?1
Not going to get the carb out without removing the airbox so let's take a look...

https://i.imgur.com/UbYn2mi.jpg?1
Looks okay? No, it was only oil holding all that together and the foam just disintegrated!

https://i.imgur.com/nwrMjnS.jpg?1
I could buy a new air filter but I still have some foam left over from doing the Superlight air filter. (It's about £16 for a chunk of pre-cut foam with the official Keeway part number or fuck all to buy a big sheet of foam meant for chainsaws and the like.) Probably just wrap this cage and glue/staple a seam.

The rubbers are generally in good condition; there's some cracking at the top of the snorkel, nothing worth worrying about. Do the reeds look okay?

https://i.imgur.com/RTAizmv.jpg?1
Here's the carb with the unnecessary black paint. A 28mm Mikuni of some sort, early VM28 maybe? Can't seem to find a schematic that quite matches this one.

https://i.imgur.com/NGZ094M.jpg?1
Dunno about the mashed up bits just below the choke! I assume nothing important if this is the carb it was originally running with. Might be what was fitted to the IT 250.

I popped the float bowl and it's about the cleanest carb I've seen bar a brand new one so fuck it, I'll leave stripping it down for now. Certainly don't think it needs a rebuild kit from my brief visual assessment Smile

Last bit of light I put back the reed, inlet rubber, carb and oil pump. (Also connected the pump to the carb with a stray piece of tubing that happened to be floating about the engine... unconnected to anything. Surprised I didn't loose it when I pushed the bike home!)

I was going to check the plug but my pizza will be here soon Drooling
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 06 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Air filters, air filters... feck! How much?!

Sod that...

https://i.imgur.com/w0r4SeA.jpg?1

A drop of oil and that'll do Very Happy
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 06 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks like a nice, relatively easy, project at least it's, mostly in one piece.

For what it's worth here a couple of my thoughts.

The spokes, unless there are broken or bent ones, I'd de-rust them before replacing them, when I did my XL, the spokes looked just like that, I had to replace one, the rest got cleaned polished and painted. It's had multiple MOTs since, never been a problem.

The carb, I bought the repair kit, fitted it, but when the bike was finished it never ran right, a new, cheap Chinese copy sorted the problem immediately. IMO, the original was simply worn out!

That tail pipe looks exactly the same as the one on my YAM GT50 resto.
You can still buy an new aftermarket one for not a lot. I'm sure it's the same tail pipe used on a TY175. You should probably make friends with the Sammy Miller emporium! Laughing

Good luck! Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 06 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suntan Sid wrote:
The spokes, unless there are broken or bent ones, I'd de-rust them before replacing them, when I did my XL, the spokes looked just like that, I had to replace one, the rest got cleaned polished and painted. It's had multiple MOTs since, never been a problem.


I hit 'em with a spanner... ding, ding, donk, donk, ding, ding... etc. about a quarter of them don't have a nice tone and that's just the front wheel! The back spokes are much worse and one of them's snapped Sad Even so I'll take your advice and see if there's any metal left after the rust is removed. Front maybe, back... not so much Smile


Quote:
That tail pipe looks exactly the same as the one on my YAM GT50 resto.
You can still buy an new aftermarket one for not a lot. I'm sure it's the same tail pipe used on a TY175.


Yes, the mounting bolts are almost completely sheared off Sad I'm wondering whether I can trim off the remnants, flatten off and tap some threads or not bother and get a new one. Thing is despite all the rust falling out of it it feels really solid, no pinholes or thin areas at all.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 06:54 - 07 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my old Yamaha trail bikes it was always the rear wheel spokes which went first. Mind you, they weren't rusty - it was from offroad abuse!
As said, if they're not too rusted through you should be able to save some of them. Is there not a local shop which specialises in offroad bikes near you? Could well be some more modern machine spokes which match or will give the wheels a stronger upgrade - you could well find helpful information in other forums for that.

With the autolube pump make sure it's actually working following that freeing off of it. Are there tolerances to check via a manual somewhere?
I reckon you'll need to remove those stiff 'fixed' pipes anyway to make sure they're not blocked or holed. If holed they'll not just leak oil giving less lubrication but will also allow air into the fuel mixture.

The reeds. I can't tell from the pic but they appear to be aftermarket ones. Perhaps Boyesen but I dunno. Personally I'd replace for new regardless because they could break and go into the engine. I had metal standard ones do that too. Just buy new and make sure they seat well and seal any air from backflowing.

The carb? Is it not the wrong one anyway? Instead of faffing on with it why not just buy a new(ish) one and be done with it? I'm sure that's a sheared old piece of bolt being used to bung a hole too.

Instead of messing with bits and re-assembling them why not just pull the whole bike to pieces? Far less hassle that way and once the frame is ready you can add restored parts as they get done until you have a complete bike. By dismantling it you'll also be able to hide it in various corners around your house and it won't get stolen.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 07 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spokes: I think there's a local wheel builder somewhere round my way but an odd spoke is easy enough to get hold of. Let's see how they buff up Smile

Automix oil system: from the manual about the only thing that's changeable is the shim controlling the base flow. After that oil either spits out or it doesn't! But I take your point, maybe I can see how much it spits into a jug in a minute and compare to the yamaha specs.

AFAIK those are Boyesen dual-stage power reeds. They're sorta current but I think everyone else has switched over to carbon fibre now. I've added new petals/membranes to the list, thanx Thumbs Up

Yes, the original carb should be a 24mm and this is a 28mm Shocked Seems a bit of a jump seeing as it's the original airbox and exhaust. "Oh yeah, it's been ported!" okay... and some funky reeds. Don't think that requires a carb 2 sizes up Very Happy However, "The Plan" is to at least get it running...

Everyone has talked at me saying "oh yeah, great bike! you'll have a lot of fun with that!!!" IRL, not just on here. But one man's fun is another man's frustration. I have had quite a bit of fun tinkering with little 2-strokes in the past and I do prefer smaller bikes so all the portents are good but if I don't bond with the machine-soul of the bike there's not much in continuing...

Errr, right Shifty Anyhoo, let's see how it feels with this carb and use that as a starting reference before buying stuff blindly Smile

Finally, regarding a complete strip down I refer you back to "The Plan" Very Happy A quick spin round the block should be sufficient but yes, after that it's down to PoundLand to buy some tubs to put all the bits in - my wife's collection of Chinese Takeway containers has taken a big hit recently Sad

I have a bit more background history on it though. There's the old tax disk in the random pile so it was on the road from '76 to (at least) '83. After that the automix oil system and ancillary electrics were stripped and it spent some years as an off-road bike running on premix before my mate got hold of it.

His ambition was to restore it back to a road bike and do some green laning. It definitely got totally stripped as the he did the plasti dip frame. So far it looks like he did a fair job on restoring it apart from an aversion to retaining pins and pipe clips. That and painting everything black Rolling Eyes (I suppose it works given the current tank.) AFAIK it never left his shed in 30 years; it may have been started up from time to time but that's about it. I'm sure I'll catch up with him this week and get some more info.

Good news though! Someone reminded me of the Kempton Autojumble and there's one at the end of this month - excellent timing Very Happy Another reason to assess the bike running: to decide whether I need to keep the DT125E bottom end in reserve otherwise I might shift it on at the Autojumble.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 19:35 - 07 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would junk the autolube. Heavy and complex and lots of drag. They pick up much faster without it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 07 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
I would junk the autolube. Heavy and complex and lots of drag. They pick up much faster without it.


Okay, so I lose the tank I get that but then I also lose the battery tray Sad I can bolt on some sort of frame for the battery instead but then I also have to come up with a panel to cover the gap.

However, and this is where I play the "I iz noob" card, does the auto oiler not help in keeping the sump oiled when idling, e.g. coasting down a hill with no throttle, or was somebody feeding me a "glass hammer" and "skirting board ladder" line? Thinking
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 07 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


https://i.imgur.com/v9pTWRr.jpg?1
Something not quite right here. The tyre's slightly closer to one fork Thinking Either there's an axle spacer missing or the forks are slightly twisted... or maybe it's meant to be like that! Comments appreciated Smile


Doesn't look like the axle was as far into the RHS fork as it should be before they did up the clamp?

Interesting thing for you.might save you some money. It's really common for people who own royal enfields to replace the standard carb with an amal then sell the original on ebay after they get fed up tripping over it. The standard carb on a 500 bullet is a licenced copy of a mikuni VM28 called a "Mikcarb". You can pick one up for sweetie money on ebay. The carb itself is ok, almost certainly a lot better than the thing you have there. The brasswork leaves a little to be desired but you'd be changingt that anyway.

I've got one kicking about I'm occasionally idly trying to make work on my ported 350 bullet without a great deal of success (normally takes a VM24). It was £15.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 08 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leave the tank on if necessary. My YR5 still has it because it looks awful without it (also acts as a sidepanel).

The thing about seizing on a closed throttle is an old wives tale, unless you plan on coasting down an Alpine pass with the throttle shut.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 08 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
Leave the tank on if necessary. My YR5 still has it because it looks awful without it (also acts as a sidepanel).

The thing about seizing on a closed throttle is an old wives tale, unless you plan on coasting down an Alpine pass with the throttle shut.


Yeah well, my mate who'd given up on restoring it mentioned it and then I thought about old 2 smoke cars (Trabants and the like) and how you could only coast in top gear 'cos that's when the flywheel engaged... and then I sorta glazed over Smile

Cheap carbs:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28mm-Carb-for-YAMAHA-DT-175-Carburetor-1976-1981-MIKUNI-VM24-M-CA18/293097883348

Check out the pictures! "Get me photos, loads of different angles." Right.... Rolling Eyes
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 09 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have a look at how the Italians ride their two strokes. Laughing

I don't run an oil pump on my KMX 125, but it was missing and I prefer the lighter throttle action without the oil pump.

Regards seizing, I wouldn't shut the throttle completely at high rpm and start banging down through the gears, as high recs andoad are what seize two stroke bikes when there's no oil getting into the motor.

Ridden more normally and during town use with constant braking and acceleration then you'll never have a problem with pre-mix lubrication IMO.

Theres not a two stroke engine out there that doesn't love constant throttle open/ throttle closed style use.

Long periods of constant throttle cruising is often where you see alot of seizures taking place, as people don't always get the midrange fueling right.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 09 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:


Theres not a two stroke engine out there that doesn't love constant throttle open/ throttle closed style use.


Suzuki T500. Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 10 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick update. I've ordered the following:

Battery
Fuse holder
Cable lube tool (one of those things you clamp on the end)
Ignition switch

Basically the bare minimum to allow it to start and ride around (no big jumps 'cos of those spokes!) TBH it's more just to warm the engine up to make it easier to drain the gearbox oil... assuming there's any in there to start with! Should have all the bits by the weekend Smile

And then the break down begins Very Happy

<addendum> Ignition switch has just turned up Smile
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Forced
Formerly known as
GT200Fan79



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PostPosted: 13:18 - 10 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Just a quick update. I've ordered the following:

Battery
Fuse holder
Cable lube tool (one of those things you clamp on the end)
Ignition switch

Basically the bare minimum to allow it to start and ride around (no big jumps 'cos of those spokes!) TBH it's more just to warm the engine up to make it easier to drain the gearbox oil... assuming there's any in there to start with! Should have all the bits by the weekend Smile

And then the break down begins Very Happy

<addendum> Ignition switch has just turned up Smile


I wouldn't bother getting it running just to change the gearbox oil. I never do oil changes on my strokers when the engine is warm, just leave it to drain for an hour and tip it over each side a few times to get the oil out of the nooks and crannies to run towards the drain plug.

When you refill it use ATF rather than flashy gear oil.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 10 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
I wouldn't bother getting it running just to change the gearbox oil. I never do oil changes on my strokers when the engine is warm, just leave it to drain for an hour and tip it over each side a few times to get the oil out of the nooks and crannies to run towards the drain plug.

When you refill it use ATF rather than flashy gear oil.


Ah, good to know. The manual says just to use standard 4-stroke motorbike oil in the gear box. Unless it has a dry clutch I would have thought the plates would be expecting standard oil over ATF Thinking
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Forced
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GT200Fan79



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PostPosted: 16:10 - 10 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Ah, good to know. The manual says just to use standard 4-stroke motorbike oil in the gear box. Unless it has a dry clutch I would have thought the plates would be expecting standard oil over ATF Thinking


What is an automatic gearbox other than a series of wet plate clutches Thinking

I've been sticking ATF in 2T Gearboxes for a few years now. Cures clutch drag as well on bikes prone to it like KR1's. Best thing is it's cheap, only bad thing is it smells like death, especially when it's been in a racebike for a season.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 10 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
What is an automatic gearbox other than a series of wet plate clutches Thinking


Ahaha! When you put it like that Smile Since you mentioned it I've been reading comments of so-called "pro" motocross peeps and they all sob that ATF is too cheap and they'd only put top quality gear oil in their pride and joy Laughing

Having said that I have stacks of 4 stroke oil left over from the Superlight and Turd Scooter in my shed. Would it be okay to use it up?
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 11 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bike looks quite saveable.
When you're getting plastic tubs you may want get a biggish one you can use for electrolytic rust removal.
That, water, washing soda (sodium carbonate) as an electrolyte
and and old battery charger will sort it.
Done it myself on various items and it worked a treat.
That seat pan could be saved I reckon
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