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ZX-25R - new Kawasaki 250cc 4 cylinder sports

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G
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 23 Oct 2019    Post subject: ZX-25R - new Kawasaki 250cc 4 cylinder sports Reply with quote

Seems talk of this has been around for a while:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZnzJx1VyrY
Alas I suspect it may have to be built to a restrictive budget; but hopefully going to be interesting anyway.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 23 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I can't find any confirmed specs (power, weight) for this. The '90's ZXR400 Wub had a 2-stroke 250 sister but I can't imagine this will better either of those.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 23 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still looks like it wants to kick you in the nuts, steal your phone just so it can laugh as it runs over it repeatedly Smile
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 07:58 - 24 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm? Promotional video tells you not a lot.
Ugly fairing/styling is ugly.

Yet it still holds an interest for me? Would like to know more Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 08:40 - 24 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it built for the Japanese market? I seem to remember they have some draconian cut off point at 250cc.

I wonder if it would even be brought into Europe officially. I just cant see a market for it, however lovely it is. Hopefully I'm wrong as I do like pocket rockets.
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kawashima
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 24 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
I seem to remember they have some draconian cut off point at 250cc.

Yes, no MOT under 250 & motorway over 125 makes 250 attractive here.
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mpd72
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 24 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

A screaming 4 cylinder 4 stoke super sports Jap bike? Marty, we're back in the '80's again.

I used to love looking at the imports back then in the showroom who did imports in Maidstone. Some of the 250 and 400 super sports Jap imports were nuts. Usually the ones with more "R"'s at the end..
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 25 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Is it built for the Japanese market? I seem to remember they have some draconian cut off point at 250cc.

I wonder if it would even be brought into Europe officially. I just cant see a market for it, however lovely it is. Hopefully I'm wrong as I do like pocket rockets.


I read somewhere that it's a worldwide model. Thumbs Up
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 07:00 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

McJamweasel wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Is it built for the Japanese market? I seem to remember they have some draconian cut off point at 250cc.

I wonder if it would even be brought into Europe officially. I just cant see a market for it, however lovely it is. Hopefully I'm wrong as I do like pocket rockets.


I read somewhere that it's a worldwide model. Thumbs Up


That's good. The bike market needs a bit of a shake up. Thumbs Up
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Forced
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PostPosted: 07:08 - 26 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

20k rpm on its own loses its sparkle pretty quickly though, then your left with a slowish bike and in this case a steel frame as well. Plus is supposed to have loads of electronic guff on it as well.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 09:34 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
The bike market needs a bit of a shake up. Thumbs Up


This Thumbs Up
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wopmonster
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinda wished they'd brought out a 250 stroker instead....
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 27 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is just to shut forums up I reckon. "you need to make fast 250s like you used too!!!1!"s

The price won't be a million miles away from a naked 600 it'll barely sell and manufacturers can say that is why we don't bother making decent low capacity bikes.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 07 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that cylinders maketh the bike these days tbh!

Forced is right, it's not a full on sports bike chassis, and it'll have minority appeal. Personally the 300cc Ninja engine had over 40bhp potential and I always argued it needed a proper chassis like an Aprilia RS or TZR250 one for example.

I think for the UK at least, what was the acceptability of small learner/stepping stone bikes has moved from 250cc to 300cc+. Look at how many more CBR500's they sell than Ninjas, R3's and KTM 390's.

The reason is that more capacity for your 47bhp means a lazy, torquey easier to ride and more flexible delivery. That's also why new 600/650cc bikes are all in the 800cc class for the same performance near enough. Young and old riders are less inclined to want to work a bike hard or want a frantic or focused but rewarding for high effort kind of bike.

As I've said before if they made an RGV250 or KR1 today, no one would buy one, as they'd see it as cramped, tiny, too focused, too fussy and too difficult to ride in modern road conditions. These young people are the ones who are going to embrace electric bikes hugely. The idea of easy to ride, massive torque and no gear changing or effort is a winner for these people.

It's come from cars too, where theres plenty of people now who won't buy a non turbocharged low end- mid range only performance delivery, because its easier to drive and less effort too. Give a young person a Civic type R or Clio RS200 and they won't be interested as its not an easy to drive fast low effort vehicle for example.
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Forced
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PostPosted: 12:53 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^As above.

Culturally things have changed and most kids who have got into bikes in the last 5 or 10 years really wouldn't get a 2T 250 or a small inline 4 250 / 400 despite most of them been vastly more engaging riding experiences than the fetid human shit that is the modern small capacity motorcycle. I think it's hilarious that my YR5 only really works properly when accelarating, if i asked a youth to ride it he would think it's broken. Also most kids aren't interested in spannering anymore, so making sure the 2T tank is full would be a bit of a tall order.

TL:DR 99% of young riders are twats.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's for the vast South East Asian market, no doubt. Import restrictions, eye-watering capacity-based tax rates, local cc restrictions, etc. 250cc is a limit I recall reading about in one of those countries (which buys many more bikes per year than all of Europe and Japan combined). Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, etc. In cities there is a street racing culture, and everyone is used to riding and tuning 50cc peds and stripping down C90s. They (those who can afford it) will lap up this Kawasaki. Those tiny, high rear seat perches with high footrests for the passenger aren't designed to show off, say, American assets.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forced wrote:
TL:DR 99% of young riders are twats.

'twas ever so. Thinking Wink
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
if they made an RGV250 or KR1 today, no one would buy one


Make it an NSR250R MC21 and I'd buy one tomorrow. I suspect I'd be one among many.

An RGV250 would find plenty of demand too.

KTM have continued to develop the 2 stroke 250 for their off-road bikes. Subject to regulatory compliance, I'm sure a road sports bike equipped with that engine would see significant demand.
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol!

KTM have a get out of jail, as because they sell so few bikes, and they are mostly all competition machines, they don't have to meet the same emissions regulations as say Yamaha or Kawasaki. They have managed (just) to make the TPI bikes road legal and pass emissions by fudging even these less stringent requirements. The 300 should make over 50bhp, but it's limited to 3/4 throttle and limited power electronically. They sell the bikes with two exhausts, the one fitted at the factory is full of catalysts, and it comes with a normal exhaust in the crate thats fitted by the dealer after PDI. Its not an answer to two stroke engine problems and limitations.

If you know about two strokes, you'll know that TPI results in a lower power output, and lower rpm ceiling. True DI is worse and on a 250cc cylinder capacity will severely restrict the maximum rpm so that you can't make enough power to beat the performance of a good four stroke engine of the same cc. So you have a pointless engine designed to just scrape through current emissions regs with no option to meet Euro5.

You couldn't make a good NSR mc21 today as it wouldn't perform as well as the original, but it'll still have crap mpg, burn oil, stink and have the drivability issues of a restricted two stroke. Taking you back to what Forced said.

Anyway your not a young up and coming biker, and your old enough like me to remember two strokes and ridden them. Try selling your mc21 NSR to an A2 restricted new rider who just wants a fuss free stylish modern bike, and has no maintenance skills, or interest in messing with bikes. They wouldn't accept it or the fussy nature or excessive running costs for limited benefit. They wouldn't want stinky clothes or to be seen to be ruining the planet either.

You and me are dying out, and so with us is the fuss and interest in two stroke bikes. You want a nice MC21, well I'd get one now for decent new bike money, and molly coddle it for a few years, but be sure to sell it at the right time before the nostalgia generation dye out and it becomes worthless again.
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Alex A
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 08 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
Anyway your not a young up and coming biker, and your old enough like me to remember two strokes and ridden them.


I'm a 'millennial'. Not up and coming. Not old 'enough' either!
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