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Dealing with the DT

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 30 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebuilt the seat/helmet lock:

https://i.imgur.com/k7UBav6.jpg?1

Haven't seen one of these turn up yet on eBay etc. so a bought a cheap copy of the ignition with the intention of stealing the barrel. That didn't work as the tab at the bottom is at a different angle. Bah! Okay so I'll just steal the levers. Nope! The copy is a mirror image (key-wise) of the seat lock Sad I got my local key cutter to hack something off this mirror and then put it back together with the new lock's levers. Needed some small adjustments with a file but now you only need to jiggle the key occasionally to get it to turn Very Happy

Rebuilt the forks:

https://i.imgur.com/3ywxsyM.jpg?1

Pretty straightforward considering this guy basically has the same bike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEAPFhdjaW0

My tips are: pay careful attention to the damper rod assembly order Wink

Things I have realised...

Yamaha DT forks have quite some variance across engine sizes and years. From what I've seen the fork bottoms are similar - a 30mm DT125 fork bottom from one year is probably interchangeable with 30mm DT175 from a another year. The same might not be said about stanchions and dampers, I've seen a good few variations. What I'm saying is: don't lose any bits as you'll not likely find individual parts Shocked

Having said that oil seals and dust caps seem easy enough to get hold of and that's the main thing Smile

Oh yeah, the silver paint! The tops of the stanchions are fucked but hidden behind the headlamp brackets so unimportant. I might get them rechromed at some point though.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 30 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, no longer pissing out oil when compressed Thumbs Up
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 30 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did wonder what that upper silver colour was - looks like sandblasted!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:26 - 01 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
I did wonder what that upper silver colour was - looks like sandblasted!


As you can see, not very important:

https://i.imgur.com/JTgdHEN.jpg?1

Yes, I got the forks and the front wheel back on. Now it's starting to look like a bike again:

https://i.imgur.com/3c8Ul8w.jpg?1

I got as far as putting the chain on, adjusting the stack and torquing the wheel spindles/axles/whatever. I might have got more done if I hadn't started ploughing into the Jamesons last night Smile

At least I can wheel it about now - not easy without handlebars!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got up at the crack of midday to work on the bike...

https://i.imgur.com/MMxGThV.jpg?1

Threw the handlebars on and realised nothing was straight so went round loosening everything up and took well over an hour to sort it out. Mainly as a friend came round and started regaling me of tales of his Bonneville Rolling Eyes

Got the clutch and brake levers at the angle I like - the cheap seat doing a fine job - and then hooked up both cables. I dunno about you but I instinctively grab the front brake on a bike (even without an engine!) and it's a source of comfort to get it working if a little unnecessary at this stage.

Time for a relaxing cup of tea and squinting at cable routing diagrams.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know bugger all about DTs but the cylinder appears to be in contact with the frame downtube.
Is it supposed to be like that?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 04:38 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I know bugger all about DTs but the cylinder appears to be in contact with the frame downtube.
Is it supposed to be like that?


No, it's the angle. There's about 5mm between the barrel and the downtubes I'll try and take a side-on pic for you Wink

In other news: the "poundland" side reflectors I bought have M6 stud bolts and the captive nuts on the frames are M5 Sad
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:

Threw the handlebars on and realised nothing was straight so went round loosening everything up and took well over an hour to sort it out. Mainly as a friend came round and started regaling me of tales of his Bonneville Rolling Eyes


Next time, just loosen all the bolts slightly and dunt the bike into a wall square-on 2 or 3 times by pushing the handlebars. This usually gets the front end pretty much squared up. Also a handy get you home trick after a low speed off when the forks twist in the yokes which I have used and seen used several times.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 11 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Started routing the cables:

https://i.imgur.com/LMAuBpb.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/KB4jROf.jpg?1

Not quite happy with it but then I can't say I think much of the original layout.

So I have tacho, speedo, clutch, brakes all in:

https://i.imgur.com/oRbBYOc.jpg?1

Had some fun and games getting the throttle hooked up but mostly a case of stupidity Smile

https://i.imgur.com/9FdPnSq.jpg?1

I've left a lot of pipes hanging out for testing. Fresh oil added to the gearbox.

https://i.imgur.com/yPcbBT6.jpg?1

Problems? I'm glad you asked...

I think I had about three attempts at routing the cables and wiring. The main thing I focused on is not getting things like the brake, clutch and throttle trapped on full lock. Wiring doesn't have quite the same issue but it does need to avoid hot areas where possible.

Of course I tested for spark at the earliest opportunity... yes, there is spark but only when the ignition is off Shocked I had to strip the switch out and reverse the internals. Glad I took the time to map out the original switch's function now Smile

"Didn't you sort the ignition out way, way back?" Well yes, but I missed the fact the original had ~30cm of wire and the copy had ~10cm so I did a bit of a mash up. Badly as it turns out.

Anyhoo, all good now; if the weather's okay tomorrow I might get it started up Very Happy
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 11 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wide bars can be a pain with cables as you've discovered!
If you hurry up you might have it road legal for when the snow comes..
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piazza
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 11 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bleed that 2 stroke pump Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 11 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

piazza wrote:
Bleed that 2 stroke pump Thumbs Up


Yes, I'm going to run it on premix till I'm sure the pump is working correctly Smile
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 11 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
piazza wrote:
Bleed that 2 stroke pump Thumbs Up


Yes, I'm going to run it on premix till I'm sure the pump is working correctly Smile


Sounds wise
My lad had an MZ that went bad when the pump packed in.
Shame cos it was good little runner up till then.
Not into stinkystrokes and may be mistaken but as I recall you
don't get much warning and there's no easy way to monitor
the pump.
(I spose you could fit low volume flow sensors to the supply pipe)
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Thinking

The carb drain is a clear pipe (so it can double as a float height checker.) Maybe replace the pump to carb pipe with an oil resistant clear one?
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 01:19 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If using clear pipe
you could experiment with an Led and say LDR or photodiode to
measure light transmitted across the pipe with and without oil in it.
Air bubbles or lack of oil in the pipe could cause enough of a variation to measure and use as a warning signal once you determine a threshhold.

<thinks>
Naah scratch that, if it had oil sitting there not moving, that would lull you into a false sense of security until yer motor seized.
A micro flow meter may be a better option or regular checking and testing.

summat like this

https://www.dhresource.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g10-M00-3A-D3-rBVaWV3Uk52AELIrAAMWDoVIGk8541.jpg/usn-hs06pa-1l-bajo-consumo-de-6-mm-para-manguera-de-agua-sensor-de-flujo-0.15-1.5l-/-min-para-beber-calentador-de-agua-caliente-machin-m%C3%A1quina-de-caf%C3%A9.jpg
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigged up a temporary tank:

https://i.imgur.com/BZUyVxZ.jpg?1

Premix fuel plus some oil in automix tank to see if the pump works...

Bled the system fine. Took a fair few kicks to get the engine going again but then I had dripped a little extra 2-stroke oil in the cylinder just to be on the safe side Smile

So far I've got it idling consistently with the choke on but as there's effectively an air leak where the oil feed should come into the carb I didn't get seriously into it.

Regarding the oil pump. It initially spluttered out a little oil but then stopped. I'll probably take a quick look at it (easy to take off and dismantle without popping the whole case side off) before weighing up blanking it off - annoying as I have to dump all the gearbox oil I just put in Sad
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be interested to see how they work
I'll guess it will be a LPLV rotor type thing with a metering valve
that opens up with the throttle.
Maybe it's more sophisticated than that, dunno

EDIT:
It is, found this
A load of balls pistons plungers and valves
http://dansmc.com/oil_pump2stroke1.JPG
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks to be a good write up them here

https://www.motorcycleclassics.com/mc-how-to/yamaha-autolube-zmmz16jazhur
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 12 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great link! Many thanks Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 03:15 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:

Not into stinkystrokes and may be mistaken but as I recall you
don't get much warning and there's no easy way to monitor
the pump.


You could say the same about the oil pump on a 4-stroke and the resulting mayhem arguably happens faster and is considerably more extensive than a seized piston. You just have to have faith that it's working.

As an aside, early self-lube suzukis took the rev counter drive off the top of the oil pump. If the pump fails, the rev-counter stops working.

With regard to the current project. With the engine idling on premix, pull on the oil pump branch of the throttle cable. This will move the pump to the fully on position to prime the hose more quickly.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:50 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
With regard to the current project. With the engine idling on premix, pull on the oil pump branch of the throttle cable. This will move the pump to the fully on position to prime the hose more quickly.


Lol... good shout! I was thinking I'd be super-annoying revving the engine just to see if any oil is being pumped Smile
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A100man
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
With regard to the current project. With the engine idling on premix, pull on the oil pump branch of the throttle cable. This will move the pump to the fully on position to prime the hose more quickly.


Lol... good shout! I was thinking I'd be super-annoying revving the engine just to see if any oil is being pumped Smile


This is what I did with my GT250.. This has a number of branches form the pump output that feed the main bearings and also the intake ports. you can actually watch the air bubbles 'pulse' up through the transparent feed tubes when bleeding..
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 18 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Day 1 of "Operation: Haven't You Fecking Finished This Yet?"

I'll start off with a shocking revelation:

Sometimes, just sometimes Chinese carb copies aren't worth a w*nk Sad

I know that might kick off a riot but there, I've said it now!

It did work, briefly, and then it just decided to stop working. And then it decided to start pissing fuel from the overflow - completely spontaneously - and, after some pissing about with it, I did the sensible thing and gave up and put the old one on. Yes, it's a bit beat up but at least I knew it did work.

Or so I thought.

After the bowl filled it took 2 kicks to start. (First I forgot the choke.) I let it sit while I looked for a socket extension for the exhaust nuts (more on that later.) And then it started revving like f*ck! Eeeeek! Thankfully the kill switch was wired Wink Kicked over again and just the slightest touch of throttle sounded like a Space X test flight... not one of the good ones Shocked

"WTF is going on here? Massive air-leak?" No, always K.I.S.S.

I tried again but this time with a hand ready over the airbox snorkel. Yup, start blocking it and the engine dies. So far so good. Touch of revs to start it off and starving it of air calmed things down. "Feck! There's a surprising amount of suction..." Hmm Thinking

With the engine off I checked the carb slide was moving freely. "No problems there... hang on a moment!" Idea

The carb spring on the left is the original and the one on the right is from the new (but rubbish) copy:

https://i.imgur.com/J1KZCxd.jpg?1

Compress the new one and you'll send it pinging across the garden. The old one, not so much Neutral

Yes, folks, just that simple! The engine catches and the suction holds the carb slide open spontaneously. Swapped in the better spring and normal service was resumed:

https://img.youtube.com/vi/8fkdIMI4qB8/0.jpg
https://youtu.be/8fkdIMI4qB8

With the engine running calmly again I could look at the exhaust leak. I went with "finger tight + half turn" and then "quarter turn till the leak disappears" classic but it works Wink

https://img.youtube.com/vi/v7gyo8pd-Jo/0.jpg
https://youtu.be/v7gyo8pd-Jo

Exhaust sorted but what about the oil pump? I pissed about some more:

https://img.youtube.com/vi/VVLySH6mAwI/0.jpg
https://youtu.be/VVLySH6mAwI

So it does seem to work. Doesn't seem very dramatic though Thinking I know two revelations in one post might be a bit much but... I have no idea what I'm doing here Laughing

Is a dribble on full throttle and barely a drip on idle the right amount?

Other than that I've spent the last few evenings squinting at the circuit diagram. The right one this time! Only the 1G1 specific diagram in the Haynes manual is 100% correct - there are slight variations (unsurprisingly) between the years but also between markets (US vs Europe.)

Anyhoo, I realised the connectors for the indicators I so carefully repaired need to be double bullet sockets:

https://i.imgur.com/tLn5o3h.jpg?1

Fingers crossed for the weather tomorrow for Part 2.

<addendum> Oh yeah, the tacho was off 'cos it didn't seem to do anything. I have the old tacho cable kicking about so I'm going to test it, off the bike, with the old "electric drill" trick Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 18 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used to check the operation of some oil pumps by counting drips with them set to a certain position. It would ba a drip every so many seconds.

Remember, it's probably delivering somewhere in the ball-park of 40:1 oil to fuel so roughly 1ml for every float-bowl full.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 18 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Used to check the operation of some oil pumps by counting drips with them set to a certain position. It would ba a drip every so many seconds.

Remember, it's probably delivering somewhere in the ball-park of 40:1 oil to fuel so roughly 1ml for every float-bowl full.


Well done, you've made me think, I maybe should do it more often Laughing

I'll feed the oil pump output pipe to a measuring jug and see how much it spits out over a set time and look up the specs Thumbs Up

Tacho seems to work fine with my drill. I get ~2000rpm on the low setting and practically red line (~7000rpm) on high speed. I'm wondering if it just needed "some welly" to get going Thinking
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