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Oxford Council : Local Transport and Connectivity Plan

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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Oxford Council : Local Transport and Connectivity Plan Reply with quote

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/grumpy-oxfordshire-report-bashes-motorcyclists/ar-BB12USwC?ocid=spartandhp

Oxfordshire County Council is working on its Local Transport and Connectivity Plan, intended to improve the region's transportation infrastructure to meet its future needs. Recently it published 28 papers about various topic areas, such as buses, trains, bicycles, and motorcycles. To say that the paper concerning motorcycles is scathing would be an understatement.

The paper gives a list of arguments for and against including motorcycles in their transportation plan:

For
Outside the electric vehicle revolution, motorbikes use less fuel than most, although not all, cars.
Motorbikes take up less space on the motorway than cars; so swapping cars for motorbikes would reduce congestion and take up less parking space
Motorbikes are faster than bicycles; they are perhaps more suited to longer journeys, or longer commutes, than an active mode of travel

Against

Motorbikes are mostly still using fossil fuels to run, meaning they are environmentally unsound, not sustainable, and contribute to air pollution
Motorbikes make a substantial contribution to noise pollution
Statistical evidence suggests motorcyclists are a danger to themselves, and there are recorded activities in other places showing drops in collisions once motorised two-wheelers have been banned from specific lanes other than roads.
Motorbikes are substantially larger than bicycles, so they take more land space to park in busy urban environments

Thinking
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christ. Was the paper written by a 7 year-old?
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's such a cynical, biased report I assumed it was a fake at first!

Their report states:

It is relevant to review other local authority policies for Powered Two Wheel riders. Where Transport for London has permitted permanent access to bus lanes for motorbike riders, the number of road incidents involving powered two wheelers has increased.
Injury data from the NHS relating to those attending A&E/Hospital show that twice as many powered two-wheeler riders attend hospital, compared to reporting to the police. One reason could be that of those who attend hospital – but not report to Police – are most likely to have been the only ones involved.



But, TFL state the following on their website:
(https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-of-red-routes/bus-lanes/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes)

Allowing motorcycles in red route bus lanes provides consistency for riders, avoiding confusion and unnecessary risk. It presents no significant safety issues for other vulnerable road users.
Other benefits include reduced motorcycle journey times and fewer carbon dioxide emissions. It also contributes to Vision Zero, working towards the elimination of road traffic deaths and serious injuries. Along with reducing vehicle emissions, this is a key policy in the Mayor's Transport Strategy.


Thinking
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the most childish anti-motorcycle polemic I've ever read.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of what they say is true though... We just don't like being found out.

Polluting: Check
Noisy: Check
Dangeous: Check
Harder to park than a bicycle: Check

The justification for the bus lane claim is highly suspect. Someone who missed the correlation does not equal causation part of their statistics lesson.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
drops in collisions once motorised two-wheelers have been banned from specific lanes other than roads.

Either means bus lanes are dangerous for bikers, or when you ban motorcycles from bus lanes the incidence of biker accidents in bus lanes reduces... obviously.

The pollution bit ignores the advantage of filtering past stationary or slow-moving cars. My crawling commute by car consumes more fuel than the same trip at half-term or a weekend when the road is comparatively clear.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Most of what they say is true though... We just don't like being found out.

Polluting: Check
Noisy: Check
Dangeous: Check
Harder to park than a bicycle: Check

The justification for the bus lane claim is highly suspect. Someone who missed the correlation does not equal causation part of their statistics lesson.


I've been saying this on Facebook and people have been getting extremely red faced and frothy about it.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 20 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

These types never seem to understand that correlation isn't causation.

They also helpfully missed out the fact that there is some evidence to suggest if 10% of car drivers switched to motorcycles, there would be a disproportionately large effect on traffic congestion. A Belgian study found that if 10% of car drivers switched, traffic congestion would result in a 40% decrease in congestion:
https://www.visordown.com/news/general/heres-what-would-happen-if-10-drivers-switched-motorcycles

With far fewer vehicles idling in traffic, there would definitely be an effect on air pollution.

At the root of this is the fact that motorcycles are many times more sustainable than their Vision Zero. The only time the real world seems to hove into view for such people is when a chubby guy on a 125 comes around to deliver their pizza.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 21 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never let the truth get in the way of a good argument.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 07:28 - 23 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Oxfordshire Council withdraw anti-bike statements from consultation document

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2020/april/oxfordshire-county-council-anti-motorbike-transport-consultation/

Oxfordshire County Council (OCC) have been forced to change their approach to motorcycles after outraging the biking community with scathing and unsubstantiated claims.
A document published as part of the council’s pre-consultation ‘engagement activity’ called motorcyclists a ‘danger to themselves’ who made a ‘substantial contribution to noise pollution’ attracting anger from groups like MAG and the BMF.
After being challenged by these groups and MCN, OCC published an updated version of the document with most of the offending content removed.
Cllr Yvonne Constance, Cabinet Member for Environment said of the document: "I am sorry that [MAG] feel that it is biased in its outlook as this was not the intention but accept that it was construed this way."

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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 23 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would hate to lose it, being able to park in the bike bays right in Oxford city center is super useful without having to do the park and ride larp.

The agenda seems to be pedestrianize as much as possible though.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 07:24 - 25 Apr 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tdibs wrote:
The agenda seems to be pedestrianize as much as possible though.


That's the real nub of all this: They just want to ban vehicles completely.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 09:37 - 14 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

London has, what, 30-something councils, each with its own rules, plus TFL manages the larger roads. So a short 20-minute journey can easily see you riding through 5 councils, which means riding on roads managed by as many as 6 different bureaucracies (5 councils + TFL), each with its own rules on bus lanes.

Bus lane signs are particularly confusing. Some signs are so well hidden by trees that one wonders if they were put there just to confuse riders.

Parking is another mess: some councils let bikers park in car bays, some don't, and the risk of messing up and ending up with a fine is huge.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 14 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
So a short 20-minute journey can easily see you riding through 5 councils, which means riding on roads managed by as many as 6 different bureaucracies (5 councils + TFL), each with its own rules on bus lanes.


I can also probably manage 4 or 5 councils in 20 minutes and I live in fucking Wiltshire which is massive.

You want to try Bath which is about 3 miles across. All bus lanes can be used by bikes there except for 2....
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 15 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Most of what they say is true though... We just don't like being found out.

Polluting: Check
Noisy: Check
Dangeous: Check
Harder to park than a bicycle: Check

The justification for the bus lane claim is highly suspect. Someone who missed the correlation does not equal causation part of their statistics lesson.


True.

As to bus lanes. From what I have seen of London, there are far more busses in them than many other towns.
Certainly in Leeds on many you will never see a bus even at peak times. Unless you are near the bus station.

A bus lane with a lot of busses in, is going to be dangerous if you are having to weave in and out of the lane.
A empty one is like a lane to yourself Smile
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 15 Jul 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said earlier, facts don't matter. Councils want to pedestrianise city centres. Consultancy documents are just a bit of wallpaper to hide the fact they have already decided what they are going to do.

Motorbikes are not in that councils equation.
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